[SamuelMember]

As someone who has switched from Theravada to practicing the Dzogchen ngöndro, I can testify that I have not had to start from scratch. Switching to a new tradition has required me to get use to new techniques, a new theory of how emotions work, and a new approach to discipline, but for the most part, my Theravada training has carried over nicely.

The meditation techniques I’m using are different and have required me to learn new skills, but the stability of attention and introspective awareness I have acquired while practicing Theravada have carried over. The way I deal with emotion is now quite different, but the fact that I am not very reactive anymore has made things a lot easier. To be honest with you, I think I may have been better off starting out with Theravada and then moving over after dealing with most of the psychological tension I had accumulated than I would have been if I had started out with the Dzogchen ngöndro.

I know little about Mahayana and am unqualified to answer your question, but I hope my post is useful.

[SamuelMember]

I have found the following invaluable for understanding how to apply effort during stage 4:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMindIlluminated/comments/77j5tr/tips_for_stage_4/

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMindIlluminated/comments/7dr2kj/tips_for_stage_4_part_2/?ref=share&ref_source=link

[SamuelMember]

I have recently made the discovery that increasing the amount of time I spend on walking meditation does not have the same impact on the movements as increasing the amount of time I spend on breath meditation. In fact, it does not seem to have any impact at all.

Because of the body movements, I got the impression that meditation retreat is simply something I have to go without. Now that I have made this discovery, I am going to experiment with doing a 1 day home retreat that emphasizes walking meditation and will report back here.

Sam

[SamuelMember]

In response to Blake’s posts:

someone has probably thought of this already, but I have an idea on how to better pair students and teachers. Create a list of spiritual obstacles and strengths. Have teachers rank each on a scale from 1 to 10, based on how strong each item was near the beginning of their practice. This would theoretically allow students to find teachers whose practice experience was closer to how theirs is.

Sam

[SamuelMember]

No issues at the moment. The temporary intensification has subsided. At this point you should assume no issues unless I post back here.

[SamuelMember]

I would prefer it if people do not reply to this thread, unless they are answering my question. Given my health, responding to a notification that I have received a reply by checking on the thread is not a trivial matter.

As a piece of feedback: I do not recall ever acquiring any unasked for advice on this forum that consists of anything I have not already thought of. When I ask a question, it would save time for both myself and the posters on this form if they only replied if they had an answer.

Thank you,
Samuel

[SamuelMember]

https://dharmatreasure.org/practice-in-ones-daily-life/

[SamuelMember]

Hello Darlene,

I would 1st like to point out that because I meditate while lying down, I have yet to have any body movements on a cushion.

During meditation, the body movements usually consist of my feet hitting each other as if my legs were trying to clap.

Outside of meditation, usually my legs start moving back and forth as if I had to pee, causing my knees to hit each other. Sometimes the back-and-forth movement is weak enough that the knees don’t hit. It is also common for my feet to start tapping and occasionally my legs start stomping.

To provide an update:

these past few days the body movements started to intensify. I also started to become more reactive and my attention became less stable. I’m guessing this has little to do with my transition to TMI based practice and more to do with the purification process, but time should tell.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by  Samuel.

[SamuelMember]

This week I had a significant decrease in body movements during daily life and meditation. I believe the reason I had a temporary increase in body movements was because switching to a different approach to meditation required a temporary increase in effort.

[SamuelMember]

Thus far, I have had an increase in movements during meditation, but not during daily life. That said, last time I returned to TMI it took a month before the daily life body movements got bad.

[SamuelMember]

Another update:

after discussing some of the violent body movements I have had in my legs with a Lama, she told me they were a symptom that I was putting too much effort into my practice. After relaxing the effort in my practice the body movements have reduced substantially.
As a side note: I’m going to try adding TMI elements back into my practice to see what happens.

[SamuelMember]

Another update:

the involuntary body movements started to intensify to the point where they would last from 30 minutes to a few hours. I tried removing all TMI elements from my practice and the duration and intensity of the body movements have dropped down again. It would appear that TMI raises my energy levels too quickly.
As a side note, it appears that if I practice formless meditation I get an increase in body movements during the meditation session, but a decrease in body movements during daily life.

• This reply was modified 6 years ago by  Samuel.

[SamuelMember]

To provide an update on my experience of involuntary body movements:

After abandoning TMI practice the involuntary body movements calmed down a lot. About 8 weeks ago, however, I decided that at this point in my spiritual development I am better off focusing on preparatory practices than on actual Dzogchen. After a few weeks of this the involuntary body movements in my feet and legs intensified considerably, though I have not experienced any movements in my arms and the intensity level is less than when I was practicing TMI.

I decided to do spinal breathing for 5 minutes before meditating and found a significant decrease in movements during meditation, but no significant decrease in movements during daily life. I also decided to cut back to doing only 20 minutes of meditation a day slowly easing my way back into an hour of practice a day. This decision has significantly decreased the intensity of daily life body movements, but the intensity level is still high.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by  Samuel.

[SamuelMember]

In response to Darlene asking about Dzogchen practice:

Dzogchen has a reputation for being near impossible to learn without a teacher. For that reason, instead of trying to explain Dzogchen on my own and running the risk of spreading misconceptions I have decided to provide links to useful resources:

http://arobuddhism.org/community/an-uncommon-perspective.html
http://arobuddhism.org/community/dzogchen.html
https://approachingaro.org/dzogchen-toc

[SamuelMember]

In response to Blake’s post:
no, that is not what I’m saying at all. Before explaining though, there’s something I need to clarify. Before a person is qualified to practice Dzogchen it is absolutely necessary that they have had a temporary experience of the non-duality of emptiness and form and the ability to reenter that non-dual state. The actual practice is about learning how to remain in the non-dual state. The result is that Dzogchen has a form of preliminary practice which induces a strong enough experience of non-duality for one to begin practicing Dzogchen (without inducing an insight experience).

To add further clarification, when I was referring to the Dzogchen version of concentration meditation I was referring to the preliminary practice’s version of concentration meditation (and not the formless absorptions).

[Author]

Posts