• Thus far, I have had an increase in movements during meditation, but not during daily life. That said, last time I returned to TMI it took a month before the daily life body movements got bad.

  • Another update:

    after discussing some of the violent body movements I have had in my legs with a Lama, she told me they were a symptom that I was putting too much effort into my practice. After relaxing the effort in my practice the body movements have reduced substantially.
    As a side note: I’m going to try adding TMI elements back into my…[Read more]

  • Another update:

    the involuntary body movements started to intensify to the point where they would last from 30 minutes to a few hours. I tried removing all TMI elements from my practice and the duration and intensity of the body movements have dropped down again. It would appear that TMI raises my energy levels too quickly.
    As a side note, it…[Read more]

  • To provide an update on my experience of involuntary body movements:

    After abandoning TMI practice the involuntary body movements calmed down a lot. About 8 weeks ago, however, I decided that at this point in my spiritual development I am better off focusing on preparatory practices than on actual Dzogchen. After a few weeks of this the…[Read more]

  • In response to Darlene asking about Dzogchen practice:

    Dzogchen has a reputation for being near impossible to learn without a teacher. For that reason, instead of trying to explain Dzogchen on my own and running the risk of spreading misconceptions I have decided to provide links to useful…[Read more]

  • In response to Blake’s post:
    no, that is not what I’m saying at all. Before explaining though, there’s something I need to clarify. Before a person is qualified to practice Dzogchen it is absolutely necessary that they have had a temporary experience of the non-duality of emptiness and form and the ability to reenter that non-dual state. The…[Read more]

  • Given my health, posting on here is rather inconvenient. The result is that it will take time for me to respond to your posts.

    In response to the question on dispassion.
    Because I’ve never had access to a Dzogchen teacher I am highly unqualified to speak of Dzogchen. I am even more unqualified to discuss the end results. That said, I will try to…[Read more]

  • In terms of dealing with strong emotions, I have personally found it extremely helpful to try to get skilled at detecting a state of mind before it has collapsed my mindfulness. The way I learned how to do this is to study the impacts of the various emotions on my state of mind and body sensations. Each time I did this, I could detect the emotion…[Read more]

  • Hello Meshe,
    thanks for the clarification – I think we were in agreement on Dzogchen to begin with, but are merely used to different notations. What I meant by what I wrote earlier, was that trying to take methods out of Dzogchen or Tantra and combining them with TMI without knowing what you are doing, or understanding the systems you are b…[Read more]

  • Dzogchen does not end in dispassion.

  • I believe there is some linguistic confusion. By renunciate methods, I mean those which aim to destroy passion. Obviously, tantra isn’t about that! When I use the terms shamatha and vipassana, I am referring to Sutric practices. I would use the Tibetan equivalents to refer to Vajrayana practices.

    I’m curious as to which styles of Dzogchen you are…[Read more]

  • To give examples of what I mean by using unpleasant emotions (to clarify):

    1) According to psychologists people who are experiencing nervousness and reframe it as excitement do better at public speaking and math exams than those who are calm.

    2) According to the “Upside of Your Dark Side” mild amounts of sadness allows us to do better at…[Read more]

  • Hello Alex,

    I have practiced traditional Buddhism for a few years (before switching to Dzogchen Longde) and don’t need a review of traditional renunciation. What I am looking for is what Dharma Treasure’s attitude is on the subject, to see if this kind of practice is a good fit for my friends.

    What I mean by using unpleasant emotions is…[Read more]

  • Hello Blake,
    to provide some extra information, I found that the Dzogchen approach to concentration meditation didn’t cause intense body movements. It is important to note, however, that the practice gets very different results than TMI and is aiming to prepare the practitioner for something very different from insight meditation.


  • I was wondering what level of renunciation is needed to make significant progress using TMI. I was also wondering what level is recommended (not the same thing as necessary).
    Also, is it possible for a person to make progress in TMI without abandoning the usage of unpleasant emotion?
    Thank you,

  • Hello,
    I thought I would provide an update. The involuntary body movements started to intensify and occur in daily life. Some of the involuntary body movements I had could’ve killed me if I was driving a car at the time. I decided to respond by abandoning my formal TMI practice for now and focusing on Dzogchen. Thus far, this is working well for…[Read more]

  • As an update:

    Thus far I have been unable to detect any special sensations before involuntary body movements. I did try the body scanning technique during the beginning of my meditation session last night and had a decrease in movements. I also found that after using the body scanning technique I was often able to detect involuntary body…[Read more]

  • Hello Blake,

    Thanks for the advice.

    I have noticed that involuntary body movements happen more frequently when practicing TMI. Also interesting to note: I took a break from TMI to explore different styles of Dzogchen practice and had an increase in movements after returning.

  • Hello Blake,
    I have been practicing for 4 years, started practicing TMI about a year ago, and am currently at stage 4. I’ve also started practicing Dzogchen longde about a month ago and am rather enjoying it.
    I practice meditation lying down, after discovering that the connective tissue in my legs doesn’t like sitting meditation. I lie for an hour…[Read more]

  • The connective tissue in my arms and hands is injured. The result is that stretching motions drain a nontrivial amount out of my physical endurance and harsh stretches can injure me. I learned the hard way, to give you an example, that shaking people’s hands is bad for my health. Involuntary body movements in my arms could theoretically cause…[Read more]

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