[ST1000Member]

hi Vasil,

I am sorry to know you are going through this. It sounds like it has been incredibly hard.

I am not a teacher or an expert in any way, but I have had significant difficulties after TMI for almost year and a half now.

https://dharmatreasurecommunity.org/forums/topic/time-to-switch-to-other-practices

I wanted to share some things that have helped me.

If at all possible, I would try to meet with a teacher who has experience with these types of problems if you don’t already. I see Tucker Peck online and he is super smart and has a lot of teaching experience – he has been a trusted resource and guide through some very difficult times and rough, unknown (to me) terrain.

Upon the advice of a Tucker and a qigong master, I stopped sitting practice a few months ago. Any sitting at all was totally aggravating my energy system and as attached as I was to it, it was definitely best to stop. I expect to return to it some day.

I totally agree with the qigong practices. I have found Dragon and Tiger Qigong exercise 1 to be very balancing. If interested information can be found on how to do it online. I would be interested to know which ones Nick Grabovac recommends as well.

I think it is also important to seek out someone who is a master of qigong as well. I found Sifu Anthony Korahais at http://www.flowingzen.com. He is very knowledgeable, very smart, and accessible on his Facebook groups. He has affordable programs where he teaches a skill called Flowing Breeze Swaying Willow which balances energy and removes blockages. I am currently in a year long course called Qigong 101 that starts every November.

I was also in contact with an energyarts qigong teacher, who has experience with this type of energy overload as well.

I would encourage caution with qigong as well as it can also of course cause energy overload and exacerbate imbalances. I would think personal contact with an experienced qigong teacher is the safest way to proceed given the severity of your symptoms.

Sifu Anthony recommended low level aerobic exercise as well. I try to work out on an elliptical commonly as it seems to balance the energy.

Thinking too much, ruminating about what practice to do and how to do it, and thinking about what exactly happened (and how to get out of it) seemed to create more tension in the mind/body and probably contributes to being stuck in an energy imbalance.

These things have definitely helped me – not completely – but I am much better and things are moving in the right direction.

I hope you find relief from your symptoms in the near future.

Steve

• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  ST1000.

[ST1000Member]

ps the movement it is the first movement in the video that is very similar to the first Dragon and Tiger movement.

[ST1000Member]

hi all,

I wanted to mention something that has been helpful for me in case it might also be helpful for others.

For months I have had some energy imbalance with resultant significant dis-ease off the cushion.

A few weeks ago I began very slowly learning the first movement in Dragon and Tiger Medical Qigong, a very old beginner qigong set with reported significant benefits. Apparently it works on acupuncture meridians and does not require one to feel chi to benefit, though it can give one the feeling of chi through practice.

I began a bit skeptically and very slowly because I seem to be very sensitive energetically now. I learned and practice the first movement for a few minutes each morning. I have noticed very significant positive effects such as more ease, more balance, better mood, more energy, and calm sitting meditations.

This is the link for the DVD if interested – there are also 2 books on amazon.

https://www.energyarts.com/store/products/dvds/dragon-and-tiger-medical-qigong-set-dvd

Interestingly, the first movement is the same as what an experienced qigong practitioner recommended to another on reddit.

This is the exercise the practitioner recommended which is similar to 1st movement in dragon and tiger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_G92cb_mvI&t=7s

This is the thread on reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMindIlluminated/comments/8gxia0/stage4_strong_grade_i_piti_involuntary_neck/

Throughout it all I have done my best to accept and to surrender to what is happening in the moment and to use less energy in meditation and in mindfulness in daily life i.e., not to try so hard which seems to create tension and energy. To me acceptance and surrender does not mean one can’t find skillful means to help work with imbalances. For me it is important to find and practice these skillful means without being attached to outcome or aversive to whatever comes up in any given moment.

Thank you.

[ST1000Member]

hi all, I found this article very interesting and helpful regarding energy imbalances from meditation.

https://www.lionsroar.com/what-to-do-when-energy-runs-wild/

Steve

[ST1000Member]

sorry a correction – breathe in and out in 3 part breath – and hold for 6 seconds.

[ST1000Member]

hi all,

Oh boy not another “time to switch to other practices” post 🙂

Wow thank you Eric that is very interesting.

So I have had 3 acupuncture sessions and each day the day afterwords I have intense sadness/crying for some time. While I do have some things going on, this has not happened outside of acupuncture or retreat setting in recent memory. It felt a lot like a purification – intense emotion of sadness/crying with a lot of memories that I could think of came that were sad came to mind.

The tai chi master gave me a breathing exercise to do – brief (not comprehensive) description – you breath in for 3 breaths, hold for 6 seconds, and breath out for 6 breaths. During this time you put your attention on different acupuncture points on the body – at first he told me to just do one point in the center of the foot – left than right, then center of hands left than right, then dan tien, then umbilicus. Then he added more points on the midline once I got used to those. You try to tense that area and “pull” on the inhale, keep pulling while holding, and then relax and “push” on the exhale.

What I noticed almost immediately is that when I breathed in and was focusing on my hand is that I could feel the breath easily in other parts of my body – i.e., both feet.

I also noticed that I generally felt much better afterwords and when I spoke to him about it he mentioned that of course it is not just a concentration exercise but gets chi moving.

I haven’t done TMI in a while but it is interesting to me regarding how this is similar – though of course at the same time very different – to stage 5 practice.

Just wanted to share this with everyone in case it could help.

All the best to everyone.

Steve

[ST1000Member]

hi all,

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

Julian – the contractions of face, neck, or chest would last seconds and could occur in daily life – sometimes triggered by a circumstance that triggers a strong emotion sometimes not, and sometimes when I would settle in meditation. I believe I could always override them if I wished on and off the cushion. Less commonly I would get energy currents (lasting a second or two – many in short succession) up the spine off the cushion.

I will definitely start looking into what sensations and mental activity makes up a weaker or stronger sense of self and what makes up grasping and aversion – thank you.

You had asked about the HEAL method – this was a post on reddit that introduced it to me. I have not practiced it much. I have read the book “Hardwiring Happiness” by Rick Hanson that describes it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMindIlluminated/comments/6kn0ch/practices_outside_of_tmi_methodology_which/?st=jem5v4ej&sh=aec50702

Eric – that is interesting – I just bought a book on Dragon and Tiger Medical Qigong which is based on acupuncture meridians and it has tapping along the acupuncture meridians as one of the exercises. Very interesting. how did you know they released old emotional stuff? Did it come out as mental content? Thank you.

All of this stuff is really a mystery to me, i.e., what exactly happened to me that changed me so much and drastically changed how the practices affect me? I know it was a change in energy, but what exactly? I know I likely will never know.

I had my 3rd acupuncture session and tai chi/chi gung class today. I feel that for me having access to a systematic and time tested methods and practices to deal with the energy of the body is invaluable. I am not sure I am doing the right things now but it feels right for now – I had to do something as I felt so poorly. As the teacher in the compassion workshop said, “If you have a chance to relieve suffering, you do it”

I have had essentially none of these less pleasant manifestations since starting acupuncture/tai chi/chi gung. I can now settle the mind and body again without feeling very badly and out of sorts afterwords. I haven’t done yoga in months because even gentle yoga for 30 minutes would lead to days of feeling badly even though it used to be a go to practice. I may try it again soon.

I have a retreat based on the teachings of Sayadaw U Tejaniya in early May which is a very different practice than TMI – for the foreseeable future I am going to not do TMI but maybe I will someday in the future.

It is quite an interesting path we are all on.

All the best.

Steve

[ST1000Member]

hi Matthew

The CD that accompanies the Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction Workbook has 15,30, and 45 minute body scans guided by Bob Stahl. I have not done them myself but they seem good.

Steve

[ST1000Member]

hello all,

I wanted to update the group in case what I have found could be helpful for others.

To summarize earlier posts, I have had significant energy imbalance/blockages after doing a fair amount ofTMI and after having purifications. This process was directly affecting my life off the cushion and seemed to be definitely exacerbated by practice, so in November of last year I cut my meditation down from an hour to about 20 minutes a day and started doing mostly choiceless awareness practice very gently. The deeper I got in meditation even during that time, the worse I felt.

For the past few months since I decreased my practice, I continued to have predominant feelings of dis-ease, non restful sleep, contractions of face, neck, and chest off the cushion, and occasionally energy currents up the spine.

I did my best to apply mindfulness to it and realized that my thoughts about what was happening and my aversion to it – and grasping to feel great again – were definitely increasing my suffering.

I did my best to surrender to it and have compassion for myself during this difficult time. I have been working very hard which made it even more difficult.

Then after going to a compassion workshop I realized that surrendering to it didn’t mean I couldn’t find ways to work with what was happening – the compassionate response in this case might be to try other methods to work with this process.

So I ended up seeing a Buddhist Tai Chi/Kung Fu master and acupuncturist that is about an hour away from me.

I went to a Tai Chi class and afterwords he checked my energy and said it was very strong but stuck in my head. He didn’t have time for a full session but he did a brief energy healing Reiki type healing (no contact) – About 2 days later I felt better than I had in months. I was relaxed and felt in balance and a sense of ease. A week later I went back for acupuncture and had powerful effects from it – there was some ups and downs since acupuncture but overall better. I haven’t had any of the contractions of face, neck, chest off the cushion and haven’t had any feeling totally out of balance and bad since I have seen this teacher.

I bought a medical Qigong DVD and books that are based on the acupuncture meridians and am going to start daily practice as soon as I get them.

Interestingly and not surprisingly this teacher feels that is essential to include practices to work with all of this energy when teaching practices that can generate energy. I remember Upasaka Culadasa mentioned in TMI that one might need to find ways to work with the energy such as Tai Chi, Qigong, or yoga if more intense manifestations arise.

So I go back to acupuncture this Saturday again and will start the Qigong and see what happens.

I know I have to find the balance between accepting where I am without aversion and grasping yet at the same time working with practices that can produce positive effects – and not getting caught up in these positive effects when they occur.

Thank you all.

Steve

[ST1000Member]

hi all,

I would like to thank everyone so very much for the collective wisdom. It has been a difficult time and the way forward has not been clear.

I have noticed that two days of walking has improved the feelings of imbalance. For me the energy imbalance has manifested itself as agitation and irritability well above baseline as well as periodic insomnia. Strong energy currents occur for me at times but not always.

Thank you again all so much. I will continue to experiment with what works for me – for now it appears continuing a decreased sitting schedule, spinal breathing, exercise, and heart based practices are all helpful.

I felt so much better after walking in the morning yesterday that I am hopeful that I can go back to TMI in a few weeks or months.

In the meantime I will continue to work with acceptance and letting be/letting go – I think that I have been striving to get back to feeling great again and resistant to feeling so out of sorts. I felt that meditation got me into this imbalance so I was trying to find a way to meditate out of it. Striving to get back to where I was has been the modus operandi – rather than non judgmental awareness of where I am currently.

Is there a way to donate to the community or to Blake to support what everyone is doing here?

Steve

[ST1000Member]

hi all – after a day or two of the gratitude practice and noticing a big shift in mood towards the positive – symptoms of the energy imbalance came back for me, i.e. not sleeping well, periods of agitation/anxiety. Its ‘s though the whole system got a shot of dopamine from the gratitude that felt good but I couldn’t handle because of the state of the mind/body.

Still only doing 20 minutes, but going to go back to compassion practices as I still sleep decent when I do them. Can this energy imbalance last a long time? Does the mind/body eventually get past the imbalance? It seems as though as soon as I start increasing meditation again or go back to TMI it will come back full force. Does the mind/body eventually evolve past the imbalance? I would love to continue the gratitude practice because I think it has the potential for great benefit for me but it doesn’t seem like the right practice right now unfortunately.

I know its not good to strive after the significant balance and ease that I have felt not too long ago, but it is a difficult time when there is significant dis-ease and practice generally makes it worse.

Thank you so much.

[ST1000Member]

Thank you all so much for the thoughtful and helpful advice. I am going to continue to do a reduced sitting schedule, to not do Neuroptimal for some time, and continue to focus on compassion/lovingkindness and incorporate formal gratitude practice as well.

I ended up making gratitude the focus of my brief morning sit (I loosely utilized the HEAL method as described by Rick Hanson – without the L) , and I ended up feeling much more in balance for the day than I have in the past few weeks. The heart based practices and gratitude seem to have the potential to really affect the quality of my mind and body for the better – it feels as these practices have the potential to change the polarity of the components of my mind/body from negative to positive.

Thank you to everybody so much for the help.

[ST1000Member]

hi all,

I am sorry to ask another question but I think this community may be my best shot at getting a question that I have had for a while answered.

After an 8 day retreat with Upasaka Culadasa at Cochise Stronghold where there were emotional purifications, I started doing compassion practice in addition to TMI and also started Neuroptimal neurobiofeedback. After about 15 sessions in 20 days (with the compassion practice and TMI) I felt a level of well being that I don’t think I ever felt. I was relaxed, in a great mood, awareness was spacious, mind was clear, and heart was opening. This level of well being lasted 2-3 months – I did about 50 Neuroptimal sessions in 2-3 months.

After these 2-3 months I stopped compassion practices and stepped up TMI to 70 minutes from 60 minutes. More purifications came – there was a week when hours of daily meditation was accompanied by energy and intense openings in my spine (?heart chakra and other chakras) and on a self retreat later deep (but familiar) psychological content arose including very strong self criticism/judgement.

After 6 months from starting Neuroptimal after the retreat, I am so much more sensitive to the neurofeedback than I was months ago. Its even occasional use can precipitate physical manifestations such as energy currents/movements. I no longer feel anywhere near as good as I felt in those months I described above and have felt out of balance for months without a good sense of well being. .

I have not used Neuroptimal in weeks and only have used it occasionally for months. As I mentioned in a previous post, I have decreased my meditation to 20 minutes daily and am doing primarily compassion practices for a few weeks to try and rebalance. Blake had noted that sometimes a decrease in meditation may be needed as there can be energy overloads if we are sensitive to meditation. I believe there is still some degree of energy increase in my body with this decreased level of meditation, but I am able to sleep pretty well (as opposed to when the energy increases significantly) so I will keep doing this plan for a while. I did notice even gentle yoga for 2 out of 3 days for a half hour totally increased the energy level in my body and led to agitation/anxiety and feeling imbalanced.

It has been a difficult time as I am trying to figure out what my mind and body needs now – it seems to have all changed. Through it all I am trying to cultivate mindfulness and compassion for self and others in daily life – I think it is one of the only and best things I can do at this point.

Of note I mentioned Neuroptimal to a very experienced meditator and teacher in the Tibetan tradition who also does energy healing. After just one session he felt very strong energy currents in his body and and experienced very strong physical purifications. He noted that because of his energy healing combined with meditation he may be much more sensitive to it than others.

I am very curious if anyone had experience with Neuroptimal and these kinds of issues – I believe they are not typical in the general Neuroptimal community but wanted to see if these issues arose for anyone else when combined with TMI practice. I am hoping I will be able to use it again in the future as an adjunct to meditation.

Thank you all so much and happy holidays to you all.

[ST1000Member]

That is very helpful Blake thank you so much.

I ended up doing shorter practices and switching to compassion practice and noticed a large shift in my capacity to be present, my mood, and spaciousness of awareness. It felt like that it was the missing ingredient and just a touch of it made a huge difference.

Thank you again.

[ST1000Member]

Thank you all for the help.

I think striving has definitely been a problem for me and I do think my attitude is different with other practices- there is more of an attitude of self compassion and an attitude “let’s see what is here and let it be – allowing myself to be as I am” when I do other practices. I try to relax and not try as hard with TMI practice but I still end up getting the energy overload. Maybe I need to relax and allow even more with TMI as well as emphasize peripheral awareness more.

I think I am going to do body scans and compassion practices for a few months and try and relax. I think body scans may still be contributing to the energy though too but it seems not as much. It seems like it might takes a while for the energy to subside. Yoga used to feel good to me but at times it makes me feel worse because of the energy overload. Maybe i will ultimately have to cut back on meditation – I would rather not if possible though.

Is this something that retreat can help subside or can it make it worse? Months ago retreat helped to subside kriyas I was having after a bunch of purifications – but a recent self retreat didn’t seem to have any affect on the energy even after some very intense purifications.

That you all again so much.

[Author]

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