Confused about the role of effort in meditation

[lemmeflyMember]

Hi all,

I have read “The mind illuminated” and really love the clarity and accessibility of the instructions.

However, I am a little unsure about the use of effort. In the book, effort seems to be an absolutely necessary ingredient up to the higher levels of the progress ladder. On the other hand, I was watching a Youtube clip called “The stages of meditation”, where Matthew is doing a guided meditation saying things like “Willpower has no place here, we just use interest to keep the attention on the breath”.

Now to me, this basically means “Don’t use effort or striving in your meditation, but a very passive approach without any force whatsoever”.

Naturally, I’m a little bit confused now about the actual role and application of the effort that is mentioned in the book. Does it just mean to be patient and go back to the breath again and again without becoming frustrated. Or is it actually the kind of effort that goes along with a bit of (physical or mental) tension in order to stick to the meditation object?

Should I use the super gentle/passive approach or the one which is a little more forceful. Or do I have to find just the right balance somehow?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys!

[Kurt SMember]

Hopefully Matthew responds to this post himself, and you’ll get a clear answer from the source.

My own thoughts on the subject are that you are probably overthinking terminology. Really, it’s as simple as maintaining your attention on the focus object. If you feel this requires a great deal of effort or tension, relax yourself and try approaching it with a sense of calm attention. Being interested in the breath is helpful because it’s easier to maintain attention on things that we are interested in, thus creating a frame of mind that helps keep feelings of effort and striving at bay. For some people, looking at it that way can be helpful. For other people, maybe it feels contrived.

In the end, all of these words like striving, effort, interest, gentle, passive, calm, etc. are just…. words. The best thing to do is work it out yourself through practice.

Personally when I meditate, I start by sitting down and relaxing my body. Before I focus on my breath i just become aware of my body and the sensations of breathing, I also let my mind calm down. I let thoughts come and go without attaching to them. Then when my mind feels calm and my body feels relaxed, I bring my attention to the breath. Not long after, there is a flow state where it feels much less effort is required to maintain concentration. At this point there isn’t really a sense of effort or doing, but more of letting meditation happen.

I hope that helps and makes sense for you.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by  Kurt S.

[lemmeflyMember]

Hi Kurt,
thanks for your reply!

It sounds to me like you are also suggesting a very soft and relaxed approach with just the slightest bit of effort (until even that fades away).
That just makes me wonder why Culadasa chose to explicitly put in the fire as a symbol for effort in the “stages of meditation” images in the book. Is it there just to symbolize the small difference between “little effort” and “no effort at all”?

Of course I could just go experimenting and trying to find out just the right amount of effort/relaxation, but in my experience so far, these kinds of little tweaks don’t necessarily show any clear effect at once, but need weeks or sometimes months to be seen as useful or dead ends. Having to work this out by myself just seems like a frustrating process that could take an unnecessarily long time to find the right calibration.

I guess I will just be going with the more passive and subtle approach and not worry too much about using effort. Intuitively this also feels like the right way to go (for now).

[Kurt SMember]

It seems like you already have an intuitive sense of how you should be approaching things. I think it’s worthwhile to listen to that intuition and not worry too much about the words in the book. The book is excellent, I bought the electronic and print versions of it. I love the book and I recommend it to everyone.

The Mind Illuminated is a really detailed book and an amazing resource. I really think it’s a treasure of information about meditation, and the teachers here know far more than I do about the ins and outs of meditation, and the methods outlined in the book.

However, it’s just a book and your individual path to awakening is going to be yours alone. So, try not to worry too much about the details of the book. If you pay attention to what happens during meditation, truly pay attention, I believe you’ll be on the right path.

[antonyMember]

I read books,they inspire me.On a negative point i feel my meditation is flawed..that’s hard to let go of.

[Ivan GanzaMember]

The book is basically a map. Check the map once in a while but don’t try to hold it in your hands while you are doing the driving 😉

The only flawed meditation is one you didn’t do. If you are sitting that is amazing!

Cheers,
-Ivan/

[Josh GellerMember]

If you think about what it was like to first drive a car or play an instrument you might remember how much effort (energy) it took to pay attention to everything and make sure you were doing it right. Eventually, I hope, those activities became more automatic or effortless. In the same way, constantly bringing the attention back to the breath takes mental energy or effort. Eventually, the attention stays on the intended object and seems effortless. The flames on the path just indicate that it takes less and less mental energy (effort) to stay on task as one progresses. There should not be tension in the body while mental energy is being expended. This would be akin to gripping the steering wheel tightly while driving or tensing one’s arms while playing an instrument. That would be detrimental to the desired result.
I hope this clarifies the use of the word effort. Josh

• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by  Josh Geller.

[lemmeflyMember]

Thanks for your input, guys. It all seems to point in the same direction, namely that the effort should only be in the constant remembering and bringing back of the attention to the meditation object until even that gets sort of automatic.

In the beginning, some kind of physical tension will probably be unavoidable (I’m thinking especially around the face/eye region), but after a while maybe that will fade as well (I’m not that far yet).

I will try to let go of any intentional striving and let go (in the body) as well as I can, let’s just see how that develops 🙂

[Anonymous]

Lemmefly,
Sometimes a fire is flames and other times the fire is a pile of hot coals. You will solve this matter for yourself by going to a ten day meditation retreat. The first three days or so, you try too hard, and you fall into an unavoidable deep sleep of fatigue, and when you wake up you sit immediately and you find your mind tuned exactly right. Remember that mental tone feeling and recall it when you sit after your retreat.

[Kurt SMember]

I’m interested to hear more about the physical tension you are feeling around the face/eyes. If the tightness in that area is because you are tensing your muscles as you focus, then it’s as simple as consciously relaxing that area as much as possible. Tension in any area isn’t strictly necessary for meditation. You want to be relaxed and alert at the same time.

However, feelings of muscle tension like you describe can happen involuntarily for some people. In my case, when I started meditating I started experiencing strong energy movements. The area around my forehead and eyes was particularly sensitive to the energy and I’d experience muscle contractions around my cheeks and eyes, as well as an all around feeling of tightness in my head. The sensations of energy became so strong that it was very difficult to feel my breath at the nostrils because there was so much interference.

If the second case sounds more similar to what you are experiencing, then something that helped me was to shift my focus object from the breath at the nose, to the breath throughout the body. I found that whole body breathing dispersed the energy more evenly throughout my body and it was much more manageable. Eventually, my body adapted to living with increased chi/energy/kundalini (whatever you want to call it) and now I can focus on the nostrils without as much interference.

Hopefully that all makes sense for you.

[Rob LaMorgeseMember]

lemmefly,

A trick for tense eyes that helped me (your mileage may vary): With your eyes closed direct attention to the optic nerve connection at the back of the eye. That slowly results in the eye taking a softer focus (even with eyes closed) and helps with eye strain.

Note: You may not necessarily “feel” the optic nerve. It’s more about directing attention to the back of the eye in the skull to ease tension.

If you’re tense in your eyes, there may be tension elsewhere in the body while sitting. I highly recommend “The Posture of Meditation” by Will Johnson. It’s a non-tradition specific manual for meditation posture. It’s quite short as well, so it’s easy to dive in to the material. Personally, exploring meditation posture and relaxation more deeply has affected my meditations in a meaningful way.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by  Rob LaMorgese.

[antonyMember]

retreats are hard in the uk.we are limited in Monastery’s that offer retreat but they offer stays for up to 7 days.I know of only 2 monastery’s in the uk

[lemmeflyMember]

@Wiley Fox
That sounds like a good idea, although I won’t be able to do an official “out of house” retreat in the near future due to my work schedule. However, I plan on doing something along the lines of a 10-week meditation challenge, where I try to keep up a good amount of meditation (say 2-3hrs) every day.

I have done a more intensive (basically all-day) home retreat for a week in the past, and I can certainly attest to the incredible fatigue and sleepiness that crept in every day, escpecially in the early afternoon.
I agree that after a nap the mind oftentimes just feels in a somewhat “better” state. For instance, sometimes when I wake up to a song on the radio, the music sounds much more clear and beautiful than usual (even old songs that I’ve known for a long time). That effect never lasts more than a few seconds or minutes though.

@Kurt S
To be honest, I never attributed the tension in the face and eye area to the movement (or blockage) of some spiritual energy. I basically see it as a sign of not being able to really let go, and instead being dragged around way too much by thought. I try to check my face (and also chest area) every couple of minutes during meditation for tension, and basically I am tensed up every single time I look for it.
Usually I will try to relax and let it go, but it’s almost certain to be back again the next time I check a few minutes later.

@Rob LaMorgese
Thanks for the book advice, I will certainly look into it! Posture is another of those areas in meditation where I don’t really feel quite confident. I always have the feeling like my body is a little asymmetric or leaning/twisting a little bit to one side. Also, I have to always hold one of my legs in a slight tension in order to stay somewhat stable not go too far to one side (I usually sit in a cross-legged or half lotus style).

In all honesty, I am pretty convinced that the soft and relaxed approach is the most (and only?) skillful way to go with meditation, but when it comes to “special effects”, so far I had the more interesting experiences using really hard tension. For instance, one time I sat for half an hour basically tensing up all of my muscles (legs, hands, face, eyes..) and really forcing myself not to let go of the breath. That actually seemed to help the mind from wandering, and after about 25 minutes a shift seemed to happen. It was as if the “mind-space” (the felt sense of spaciousness around the center of my head with closed eyes) had gotten a lot bigger and I could really “feel it out” in all directions. It actually felt kind of nice, but getting there was obviously really exhausting and I also had a slight headache afterwards. Using the really soft approach of always trying to relax as much as possible, I never had anything like that happen. I guess as a meditator you can’t help wishing for at least something interesting or extraordinary to happen from time to time, at least thats the case for me.

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