[Alex KMember]

Thank you Blake. I am touched by your dedication to helping others.

In looking at the overview of the ten stages, when I put aside the specific techniques associated with each stage (for instance being able to detect details of the in breath and out breath), then I think my experience most closely matches Stage 4.

Is this the way one should practice: seeking to the master the goals for that stage rather than any particular technique to achieve the goals?

I ask this because I feel that the difficulty Im having working with breath sensations isn’t particularly effecting the cultivation of mindfulness and clear comprehension so far.

[Alex KMember]

OK thanks for clarifying that. On that basis I guess its a possibility. If I wanted to test this out further would I then take up Stage 7 practices?

[Alex KMember]

Hi Blake,

Thank you for your reply.

The mind state isn’t at all joyful. I would describe it as more constricted and joyless ie sadness 🙂

I cant identify with the description at all in the sixth interlude.

A trauma related memory did occur towards the end of the sit. I was cautious about mentioning it as it may just be the mind creating a story. Although I will not go into details I dont think I properly dealt with the experience and that it has remained below conscious awareness and manifests primarily as constricted breath sensations when I meditate.

The experience of tightness of breath is actually a historical issue which goes back many years and which I thought was due to past meditation techniques I had followed. My feeling is now that is a more deep seated mental issue which is coming up as physical tension in the breath. I do find that I take periodic deep sighing breaths (releasing tension?) outside of meditation which occurs to me may be related.

If there are any recommended methods for working with such historical trauma I would be very glad to know about them.

Many thanks,
Alex

[Alex KMember]

Hi Blake,

Thank you for your advice its wonderful to have feedback from a TMI teacher.

So I followed your guidance and after going through the preparation I just settled attention on breath sensations I could feel around the nose. I just set the intention to notice to breath sensations without even differentiating between whether they were in or out breaths.

The sit highlighted what I think may be a trauma which I have become habituated to. The actual experience was that breath sensations are being ‘drowned’ out by sensations of tightness throughout the breath cycle. I feel this tightness in the abdomen, chest, throat and head. The feeling tone is quite unpleasant and somewhat painful at times. It feels very much like a fear response to me such as when one is very scared and there is physical clenching throughout the torso. The breath is shallow and feels locked down so that both the in breath and out breath are constricted. There is some mental chatter, mainly thoughts about how the meditation is going, but I usually notice this and can easily return to the breath sensations, such as they are, without forgetting or mind wondering.

I tried taking the unpleasant/painful feelings as the meditation object to see if I could just observe them without getting caught up in any narratives about it but not sure if this right thing to do.

Im guessing that to effectively use the breath sensations at the nose as a meditation object I will need to deal with this issue first. Maybe using the breath sensations at the abdomen could be a better object for now as I feel that is the physical seat of the problem?

Any advice is gratefully received.

Kind regards,
Alex

[Alex KMember]

Hi Maria,

Im not able to help you with any practical advice but I wish you well in your practice.

Kind regards,
Alex

[Alex KMember]

Hi Blake,

Yes I do put my attention on the sensations at the nose area.

Usually sensations are not clear, like trying to see details through a mist. When occasionally the mist clears I can sense the start of the in breath, coolness, movement and the pause. The out breath start is not clear but I can sense it is there. Interestingly on one sit when I made the intention to have ‘clarity’ the ‘mist’ cleared for a time and sensations became clearer to me for a short while. This leads me to suspect that dullness is present. These are non-perceiving mind moments right? So the meditation object would not be perceived as clearly as it could be?

Often I feel a sense of tightness associated with both the in breath and out breath.

My most recent sit was a lot of mental talk to do with how much effort there is and where my attention is. Also reminding myself to relax, enjoy and just observe etc. Also I there is a fair amount of checking what my mind is doing. There was also some forgetting though I would say that is not typical.

I would say there was quite a lot of analyzing and judging how it was going and certainly some frustration. I would also say that I get upset when I cant discern ‘enough’.

Today’s sit was particularly frustrating and amusing because I found myself trying to ‘think’ my way out of what seemed to be obstacles to the meditation. When I feel I am trying too hard I try to drop the attention on the breath sensations at the nose and just stay with present moment awareness. I don’t think that is working though as attention then seems to be more scattered and I think there is still a lot of dullness present in the mind.

I feel that after many years of meditation practice (I first started practicing in 1990) of making ‘strong’ effort to stay focused ‘efforting’ has become a hindrance and is a difficult habit to let go of.

After reading the first stage practice again also listening to a talk by Culadasa on where effort should /should not be made I get the feeling that I am applying effort in the wrong way. Would it be correct to say that the only effort required is that needed in making the intention to give attention to the meditation object before starting to practice and only when the attention leaves the meditation object during practice? So any other effort, like trying to focus or detect details of the meditation object, is a potential hindrance? If that is the case then I need to find a way to drop the habit of ‘efforting’ and also combating dullness – any suggestions would be gratefully received! 🙂

Thank you for your help.

Kind regards,
Alex

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by  Alex K.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by  Alex K.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by  Alex K.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by  Alex K.

[Alex KMember]

Dear Ted,

First let me say thank you for your reply. I really do appreciate it! 😊

I think I am working on stage 3 but it may also be stage 2 or stage 4!

I do not think I am experiencing forgetting going by the description of forgetting in TMI. There are no ‘aha’ moments as such where I find that I forgotten the breath. I sit for about 1 hour by the way.

I also do not experience strong dullness at all. I never have ‘zen lurch’ as its called.

I am experiencing distractions, but they are momentary ones mainly. Gross distractions are rare going by the description in TMI – they don’t take centre stage and are not occupying attention most of the time.

I am aware that I am over ‘efforting’ and have tried to counter this tendency by letting go of the attention on the breath so it sits more in the background. I then occasionally experience what I guess is momentary pitti – a pleasant tingling sensation accompanied by increased clarity of awareness.

I assume there is subtle dullness as the breath sensations are not clear to me and many times I cant detect any details apart from clearly knowing the start of the in breath.

I am not sure whether I should actually be staying with stage 2 practice until I detect breath sensations more clearly?

[Alex KMember]

Dear Darrell,

I’m wishing you well in your practice.

I have recently started working with the TMI book (stage 2-3). As someone who can be very goal orientated I find that I often put too much exertion into my attention on the breath. This can lead to all sorts of undesirable mental states such as agitation/dullness as well as so called monkey mind. One thing which I have found helpful is to sometimes completely stop making any effort for a little while and just enjoy being in the present moment free from my usual day-to-day concerns. Paying attention to the breath but still being present to sensations, sounds etc. can highlight the difference between over exertion and just being present. I’ve found it can be quite helpful in finding the right intensity of effort needed.

“And what do you think: when the strings of your vina were too taut, was your vina in tune & playable?”

“No, lord.”

“And what do you think: when the strings of your vina were too loose, was your vina in tune & playable?”

“No, lord.”

“And what do you think: when the strings of your vina were neither too taut nor too loose, but tuned[1] to be right on pitch, was your vina in tune & playable?”

“Yes, lord.”

“In the same way, Sona, over-aroused persistence leads to restlessness, overly slack persistence leads to laziness. Thus you should determine the right pitch for your persistence, attune the pitch of the [five] faculties [to that], and there pick up your theme.”

AN 6.55
Sona Sutta

[Alex KMember]

Thank you!

[Alex KMember]

Thanks Andrew 🙂

[Alex KMember]

Hi Andrew and thanks so much for taking the time to read my post and respond. I am very grateful! 🙂

I think your advice is good and have since noticed a slight shift/movement in the tension which is interesting.

Also I have tied reformulating my motivation to be more inclined to exploring rather than trying to attain greater concentration. This is helping I think to ease off on the effort. Interestingly even though Im still finding it difficult to discern breath sensations at the nose I was aware other some unusual sensations which are new to me. This leads me think I had expectations of having certain sensations which was limiting what I am able to perceive. All good food for further exploration I think!

Many thanks! 🙂

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