[Rob LaMorgeseMember]

I only have a thought regarding appreciating the moment where you come back to the breath. I went through exactly what you describe in my practice. The mind would notice it was off the breath, then automatically go back to the breath before I was consciously aware of having forgotten the breath.

The main thing for me was to accept that whenever I became consciously aware that I had remembered the breath was the moment to appreciate. After some practice, the mind does start to self-correct. Others might correct me but I think that’s part of the process and in general a good thing.

So here’s what this looked like in practice for me:

1. Attention on the breath.
2. Distraction takes attention from the breath.
3. The mind corrects and puts attention back to the breath automatically.
4. Conscious recognition that attention was not on the breath but the mind has automatically brought attention back to the breath.
5. Stop and appreciate the moment.

In my opinion, you now actually have even more to appreciate than before. Not only are you appreciating that you remembered the breath, you are also appreciating that the mind went back to the breath all on its own.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by  Rob LaMorgese.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by  Rob LaMorgese.

[Rob LaMorgeseMember]

Yes, this is precisely the point in my practice that I first experienced purification. As I am not a teacher, I won’t say much about how to deal with it other than to read the section on purification in the book. It helped me greatly.

[Rob LaMorgeseMember]

moln1,

I believe I’ve just come out the other side from a very similar process to what you are experiencing right now. When I entered stage four a lot of mental activity and dull dream-like states arose. It felt like I was in a meditative state “less advanced” than when I was back in stage two. I went into a spiral of judging and doubt over the practice. But I stuck with it and have found myself in a very different stage four than before. I’m still working with and learning about gross distractions but everything is much quieter than before (but not quiet).

To be honest, I did nothing special. I just stuck with setting the intention to anchor to the breath, notice what the mental states were, and correct when necessary with the appropriate antidote. And I stuck with an every day practice. So I guess I’m saying have faith. Things will change for you at some point, though none of us know when. I really feel for you though because I know what it’s like.

One concrete thing that may or may not be helpful: be playful. I started to think of identifying and correcting for gross distractions and strong dullness as a child’s game, like hide and go seek. That seemed to take some of the air out of the more unskillful thoughts that arose in my mind.

[Rob LaMorgeseMember]

lemmefly,

A trick for tense eyes that helped me (your mileage may vary): With your eyes closed direct attention to the optic nerve connection at the back of the eye. That slowly results in the eye taking a softer focus (even with eyes closed) and helps with eye strain.

Note: You may not necessarily “feel” the optic nerve. It’s more about directing attention to the back of the eye in the skull to ease tension.

If you’re tense in your eyes, there may be tension elsewhere in the body while sitting. I highly recommend “The Posture of Meditation” by Will Johnson. It’s a non-tradition specific manual for meditation posture. It’s quite short as well, so it’s easy to dive in to the material. Personally, exploring meditation posture and relaxation more deeply has affected my meditations in a meaningful way.

• This reply was modified 9 years ago by  Rob LaMorgese.

[Rob LaMorgeseMember]

Just wanted to report something that I find interesting. I recently changed my intention for the 2nd stage of the preliminaries. Before it was something along the lines of: work with what comes up or cultivate introspective awareness. It popped into mind recently to rephrase it to be “Make friends with gross distractions.”

My sits changed. Before there was a feeling of trying to wield awareness as a sentry, on guard. Now it feels like my awareness is looking out for a friend, a familiar face, across a room. This has changed the quality and quantity of recognition quite a bit. I can sort of wave to my friends the thoughts from a distance, they wave back, and mostly move on.

This is the first time for me experiencing how changing the specific phrasing of intention can alter the whole process.

[Rob LaMorgeseMember]

Ted,

Thanks for the reply. At your suggestion, I went back to the book and looked things over. The section dealing with cultivating introspective awareness did help. Particularly this passage:

“It’s like standing back a bit from the meditation object— just enough to keep the breath at the center of your attention while you take in everything else happening in the mind.”

I tried that out this morning and things were a bit different than they have been. Will have to keep experimenting with the balance between being far enough back from the breath without being too far.

The book is very clear with instruction, however, it is also very dense with information. Re-reading the same material at different times (depending on what I’m experiencing) has yielded new directions in the past. Thanks for reminding me to go back again in this instance.

Rob

[Rob LaMorgeseMember]

I feel profoundly stuck lately. I have been consistent with daily practice, usually 45-60 mins sits. There are occasional days where I do shorter sits due to time constraints.
I sit at 6am, so I’ve adjusted bed time earlier to ensure I’m getting enough rest.

In the past, when I forgot the breath it would feel like a waking up moment; that my attention would snap back to the breath and I’d realize I’d forgotten. But now when I notice the breath isn’t the center of attention it feels more like a sliding over of attention. There is no ah-ha waking up. So I’ve taken this to mean that I’m experiencing gross distraction and not forgetting. (Perhaps that’s not the case.)

A few months back I was using Stage 3 techniques, including using check ins. At that time I would have a few instances of forgetting at most in an hour sit. I got to the point where those forgetting moments went away (or so I think) and I moved on to using Stage 4 techniques.

The last month or so I have experienced an increasing amount of mental activity during sits. When I come back to the breath, it still feels like my attention slid over to a distraction. I do not feel like it’s an attentional wake up moment but more of a gentle noticing. But the frequency of gross distraction has grown quite a bit. It feels like there’s even more mental activity than when I first started sitting. There are even times when I feel like I’ve hit a gross distraction (with breath still in background somewhere in attention) but then I experience a mind-wandering with the gross distraction.

To work with this I’ve tried several things: smiling and trying to cultivate joy when I come back to the breath, going back to using check ins, increasing area of attention to whole body like one does for monkey mind. However nothing seems to be clicking. In fact, the sub-mind activity has increased even more. And now when I smile the physical movement feels like a huge attentional shift, making it difficult for me to appreciate the moment.

Pretty sure I’ve got some amount of striving going on that’s hindering my ability to be with the present in my sits now. But I feel lost at this point and am not sure which antidotes I should be using. Any ideas would be appreciated. (Sorry for the long post.)

[Rob LaMorgeseMember]

John, I cannot offer direct advice as I’ve started my journey down the path somewhat recently. But what I can say is this: I had doubts about my ability to work within this system, just as you do. Nothing came right away for me either. But even at my current stage I feel confident in saying: If you stick with the teachings things will change. The real surprise comes when you start to realize you’re not directly making the change happen. ; )

[Rob LaMorgeseMember]

Thanks for your thoughts, Ted. They are much appreciated.

I’ll try moving forward with stage 4 and see how that goes.

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