[Michael DunnMember]

Hello, Jimi

I also have a very strong tendency to identify myself with my body and thus when my body dies, then I also die. However, if you’ll forgive me for summarizing some of the great and important dharma teachings in a hurry, we can see another way to look at this.

A consideration of the “I” to start. Who am I? What am I? What if I take away the things I think of as me, do I remain? What yogis (philosophers) have come to realize is that we are not our body, but the reified “I” can in fact be more mental, as in pure consciousness or awareness, timeless and without space.

Next, the principles of causality explains how things happen in our world – (either everything in our world is purely random, caused by an omnipotent being, or caused by something like ourselves). Causality says that all things are caused and these causes need to be stored somewhere or else everything would all happen simultaneously. Some traditions believe these causes or karmic seeds are stored in your mindstream or consciousness, and at the time of death, your consciousness and all of the seeds/causes from this life are carried into your next life.

This occurs independently of a body. When you see a car on the side of the road do you assume the driver is dead? Can you imagine a state of mind without the body? If so, where does the mind reside? What is the mind/consciousness? As stated above it may be nowhere and everywhere because it is not a single thing but a series of interconnected processes.

Some Buddhist schools state that we create our next moment of mind/life because of the causes we create and store in this life, and it is self-perpetuating moment-after-moment-after-moment until the causes to see your body in this world are exhausted. Then you have other causes creating results that may be the same or different from this current world.

Therefore the work you do in this life does create your future and you do carry it with you. Working to end your suffering along the path of the 4 Truths of Buddhism does impact your future. If you were a real schmuck in this life murdering loads of beings, you would create causes for more suffering in your future lives. If you work to reduce the suffering of yourself and others in this life you create the causes for less suffering in your future lives. If there were no payback or results of your actions in this life, then why do anything but what you want (other than cultural laws which may land you in jail). This is all due to the simple laws of causality – in fact, we create our entire world.

Some say life is beginningless and endless, your past actions are the causes for your current mindstream which then create your future mind as well. The suffering you are trying to stop can be more than just physical, in fact, much of our suffering is mental, right? Physical death doesn’t end suffering, it is a simple, common moment in one’s infinite life, your body has died countless times and still suffers now, right? All that you do in this life does count.

Lastly, when you say there is no self, then who are you? Of course there is a self, but very likely not the self you thought you had, that’s all. Think laterally- if there is not the self that I spent my whole life reifying, then what could that self be? Don’t be a nihilist and deny a self – who created those words and typed them in, who is reading this? Mr. Noself? It doesn’t mean that you don’t exist – you absolutely do!

Thanks,

Michael Dunn
DT Teacher in Training

[Michael DunnMember]

Hello, Tom

Here are links to 2 online meditation groups that I am aware of:

Nick Grabovac:
http://www.30daysofmindfulness.com/courses/

Tucker Peck:
https://meditatewithtucker.com/online-classes/

Hope this helps,

Michael Dunn, teacher in training

[Michael DunnMember]

Hello, Samuel

Social interactions are unique to each person, and I can see in my life how they have changed over time and where I live and who I am with- there has been no constant. I wouldn’t dare try to tell you how to interact socially. I gather you can figure out the wholesome bit of just doing good and being happy about it.

My suggestion for a ‘strategy’ would be to simply try out different things and see how you and your world responds to it. Experiment. Set out an intention for your interactions and then evaluate it at the day’s end – did it work or not? How do I feel now? Am I wasting my time with others? Was I anti-social?

RE your first post – the term antisocial will be defined differently by everyone, so if you feel that you should socially interact with certain people (co workers, family, postman etc.) you may feel like you are being antisocial, but in fact, the others may not see that. Don’t judge yourself, just be yourself.

Michael Dunn – Dharma treasure teacher in training

[Michael DunnMember]

Hello, Ali

I’m glad to hear how meditation is bringing you joy and that you have found your practice again.

Yes, fear can be considered a purification, and not all purifications happen on the cushion so that you could be having this as you get up and contrast to a non-meditating worldview. How do you come out of your meditation? If you use an alarm and quickly get up when it rings, perhaps come back to a larger awareness before getting up. You could even reverse the 4-step process of bringing attention to the breath so that you move out from the sensations of breath at the nostrils and then of breathing, then the body, then everything in conscious awareness, slowly bringing the mind out from the focused attention of the practice. Stretch, smile and look around before getting up, all to ease the transition.

I cannot personally speak to experiences of derealisation, sorry. But I have worked through some fear.

It helps to have confidence in the practice, the technique, and the teacher, and that with this trust I could feel confident that this was a good thing for me to do and would not harm me so that when fear arose I could logically see the irrationality of it. The mind can be habituated to this confidence and away from fear with time and practice. As you develop more mindfulness you will see fear arise before it takes over and when you do see it arise you can counter it with this confidence to ward it off.

You don’t directly mention if you know what is causing the fear or what you are fearing. If you do know what the fears are you can try some release methods (such as Sedona Method etc.) on them.

If you aren’t quite sure what the fear is, eventually, you will gain insight into the source of the fear and you can work directly on that, but that will be for you to realize through mindfulness practice, which means you have to do the practice (and deal with some fear) in order to get the tools to resolve the source of the fear. It may be like going through the fire to gain the safety on the other side.

Hopefully, you will continue to practice.

Regards

Michael Dunn
Dharma Treasure teacher-in-training

[Michael DunnMember]

Hello, Neko

I hear what you are saying about the generalization on the stages though I think the hierarchical structure works well for communicating this technique through a book.

Most people don’t need to ask what stage their meditation is in as long as they know what they need to work on in their mind at any time. For example, we all know that a sit can start out at a lower stage (with certain obstacles like dullness/agitation), then you get into it when the mind settles and you are working at another stage (with certain techniques like body scanning or jhanas), and then when the mind tires the sitter will experience other stages and their obstacles… So it is never quite so linear, a meditation session seems to follow the jagged peaks of a mountain.

The important thing is not what stage you are at, but if you are working at your level for your mind at that point in time. Know the technique and then apply what you need whenever you need it. This is working diligently.

If dullness is so intense for you, and you seem to know the book well, it is because of a lack of perceiving mind moments as you seem to lose all attention when you sit and then dullness follows. This makes sense. Try to keep your attention during your sit as you do during the activities in the day that you say is full of clarity and mindfulness. The only distinction between the two is physical and perhaps this is a clue for you.
– Are you physically tired so that when you sit you tend towards sleep?
– Are you so physically active that sitting still is an absolute bore and your mind shuts down?

You can rejoice in knowing that “this too shall pass” if you don’t make it out to be more than it is, and simply apply the practice techniques to where you are. Place attention on the dullness, smile and make the intention to increase the number of perceiving mind moments. Repeat.

Regards,

Michael – Dharma Treasure teacher-in-training

[Michael DunnMember]

Hello, Samuel

Thanks for raising this issue in the forums, I am glad that you felt to do so freely, which is a sign of the community here.

You may rightly feel that the cost for a service is higher than it should be, but to conclude that there is a cult because of this just doesn’t follow. I’m missing the connection between the price of a (student generated) professional consultation and a cult. I’m sure that you know of a lot of services that are priced too high, and you simply avoid them, right? You move on and don’t use them, but you don’t call them all cults do you?

It would be good to review the criteria for inclusion as a cult against what the Dharma Treasure community does as your choice of words is very important. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

Others have already made points about the need/right for subsistence income for teachers and I think that America is a good place for this to be explored in a way that will see some changes from what may be a norm in other cultures. Perhaps you have a non-western view that teachers should not charge for their time? In this process of change do you have some ideas on how teachers can earn an income in a way that would allow you to share your experiences with family and friends?

In fact, there are many people who would love this time with a teacher like Culadasa, to aid them in their goals of training the mind to meditate perfectly. Like many things in the world, this may not be for you but they may be well suited to others and this avenue should be available to them. Some like Coke, some like Pepsi, but the world needs this choice ( I like root beer 🙂

The most important thing is that you have benefitted from his teachings, which is his only goal.

To Colleen’s point, I work for an organization that routinely takes 5-10% of the income of an event and puts it into a scholarship fund, which is then distributed to those who cannot afford full-price tickets, and this has worked well for us.

Best regards,

Michael – Dharma Treasure teacher-in-training

[Michael DunnMember]

Hello,

I was thinking about this thread this morning, and really liked Colleen’s input.

In response to your latest question, as part of the 6 step preliminary process, the last is to settle the body in the meditation posture, and at this time it is great to simply impart a smile on the face. Yes, it may seem contrived, so don’t make it a huge grin, just a smile of pleasantness. Using the body this way will ease the mind into a positive space – “deliberately evoking feelings of contentment”.

Another way to do this is to recall another experience that may have created this contentment, like being in a spa (I never have but substitute something else). Be sure to not lose this smile during your practice, so recall it at some point and bring it back. Do this throughout the day too, while walking, driving etc…

[Michael DunnMember]

Hello,

Well, a few thoughts and questions for you.

Firstly, what is your motivation for all of the hard work you have already put into your meditation practice over the course of 4 full years – what has driven you so far along this path, to begin with? Whatever this is, can you use this as a daily motivator to be on the cushion?

Secondly, and more difficult, can you let go of the desire for results in your practice – whether it is feeling sensations of the breath or sensations of pleasure. Can you try to sit with simply an objective to diligently follow the practice, whatever stage you are at, disregarding the common desire for achievement, success, results and the feeling of pleasure while sitting? The point here is that if it is an effective practice alone, then when done correctly and systematically, results will follow and there is no need to put the cart (results) before the horse (practice).

I have also put a lot of stake in looking for results to my meditation, and like you have been thwarted in my rewards, so I’ve relaxed a lot and simply do it, and it has been a joy to sit again. Ask yourself why you should expect a pleasurable feeling from meditation – just because it happened to someone else? For myself, meditation is about practice, not the results. I like my sit when I look back on it and say that I practiced what I was supposed to.

Finally, do these feelings of not enjoying the work or not getting the ‘supposed’ results, apply to other areas of your life, or is what you are describing solely related to your meditation practice? If it is similar to other areas of your life (work, relationships, housing, location etc.) then let’s not work only on the meditation component but the larger picture too. If indeed these experiences of lack of positive feedback are only on the cushion then that gives us something to work with here in this forum.

Thanks,
Michael (Dharma Treasure Teacher in Training)

[Michael DunnMember]

Hello Stephen,

According to the moments of consciousness model yes, moments of breath are interspersed with moments of awareness, so discrete and so fast that they are imperceptible to most of us, but will be so in the later stages of meditation.

The term “continuous” means that there are more moments of awareness interspersed with attention, and those moments of awareness are such that you have an understanding of the quality and state of your mind while also holding attention on the meditation object. Continuous does not imply only one form of conscious experience – attention or awareness. Through the more expansive mental capacity achieved from meditating, by the end of stage 4, you can increase the moments of awareness with attention.

Regards,
Michael
Dharma Treasure teacher-in-training

[Michael DunnMember]

One’s retreat schedule will vary depending on your retreat experience and your meditation level, neither of which are mentioned above. So here are some generic tips about a schedule.

– Great to have a schedule and try to keep it, but also to be gentle on oneself. Know that a schedule written on paper is easy and ideal, but as you know, life doesn’t unfold like a bunch of words on a piece of paper. Expect challenges, changes, adaptation.

– A retreat is built up to a point of deep intensity and just being on retreat doesn’t guarantee anything. If you are doing a 3-week retreat you may want a softer schedule the first week, second week full-on work, then lighten up a bit before your departure.

– I notice you haven’t put dinner or rest periods in there. If you are fine not eating dinner or are adopting that practice, fine, but if you do need that nourishment for your mental and physical practices then be sure to honor your needs. I’ve noticed that simple cooking and cleanup can take a lot of time, so perhaps you need more than an hour to cook a super nutritious meal, eat, clean and rejuvenate.

– 15-minute rest blocks are great, allow the mind to relax, especially early on in the retreat – be gentle.

– focus on the practices that yield the most results. Perhaps you benefit from sitting 90 minutes some sessions – great, don’t break the sit for something else, be flexible if something is working for you.

– Feel free to do some asana practices as needed to allow the body to support your mind for the retreat.

– If you aren’t used to waking up at 4:30, then acclimate yourself to do so prior to entering retreat or during the first week. If this just causes exhaustion and fatigue later in the day, then modify your sleep and wake times to support your daily practice. 10 hours of good practice is better than 16 hours of crappy practice b/c you are so tired.

hth

Michael
Dharma Treasure teacher-in-training

[Michael DunnMember]

Hi Andrew

Some of these functions of the mind happen in lower / deeper areas and cannot be measured by eeg. Even if some could you would have to meditate hooked up to an eeg machine and hat, which may affect your meditation.

If a device could measure all those aspects of your meditation that you list, you would really only be collecting data, in a “Quantified Self” approach, but I would ask how that would help you move through the stages of meditation and awakening? In some ways, this data is just brain-candy if it doesn’t help. I think, on the whole, that certain aspects of our mental development need not be measured in order to be verified, and that the intent to measure everything is not necessary for progress.

The desire to measure is an intellectual approach to meditation, which may help to engage you in the early stages, but at later stages, you will have to let go of the labels and conscious control that this measuring technique imputes, as well as the striving that it engenders. It is important to develop the skills to know the quality of your meditation yourself, I would say that if you had excellent introspective awareness, then that is your instrument to measure the quality of your meditation session. You don’t have to look outside of yourself to accomplish what you are looking to do, just do the practice!

So yes, while it may be intellectually engaging for a bit, IMHO, I feel that using scientific instruments to measure your session is a distraction from your ultimate progress in meditation practice, and more importantly not necessary because your mind already can be developed to perform the same purpose.

Michael
Dharma Treasure teacher-in-training

[Michael DunnMember]

Hello, Huw

I’m glad to hear you moving through the book’s instructions and having it invigorate your practice again. Regarding your questions:

1) I think what Culadasa is saying here is that sensations are not visual, so don’t create a visual image of them. Sensations are physical, so bring your attention to these areas of the body, and not to the visualizations which are occurring elsewhere, like the brain. There is also further instruction here that the sensations to place attention on are breath-related sensations, as such, there is a rising and a passing to these, that will not occur to a visual image of the area.

2) I have also used sound in step 1, and later throughout the practice, to establish peripheral awareness. If your attention is going to sound instead of the object of meditation, I would say you have a distraction towards the sounds, so you can practice bringing the mind back joyfully to the object. That’s all, just note that attention is moving to sound, and with that, you will create introspective awareness, then return to the meditation object. Sound can remain in awareness, the background, and as you notice sounds becoming more prominent, try to let them be, and they will go. Practice this over time and you will develop sustained attention.

Michael
Dharma Treasure teacher-in-training

[Michael DunnMember]

I also felt like I regressed into stronger dullness when going through stage four, and just kept applying the practices and eventually worked through it. The mind becomes much more sensitive through these stages, which may attribute to it’s apparent increase, when in fact it is just overcoming the last vestiges of strong dullness.

One time I wrote down all of the antidotes for dullness, both gross and subtle, and just referred to it on my cushion to overcome the obstacles, as I had my armor ready. So just keep up your practices, and know that you will move through it. You are taking the correct approach by ensuring you have fully developed both awareness and attention together.

– Michael
Dharma Treasure teacher-in-training

[Michael DunnMember]

Hello B Lejon

Now when I’m trying to overcome dullness this is something that I think of a lot because I don’t know if I’m in any way neglecting or hindering my peripheral awareness when focusing on being aware of the present moment while keeping attention on the breath.”

Further to what Blake mentioned above, I would say that you are actually alternating your attention to the present moment, away from the breath sensations, while trying to keep your peripheral awareness. This is fine in the early stages and encouraged as a way to develop your awareness and as such you should use to help against dullness.

Test this for yourself by determining if you keep sustained attention on the breath while also checking in on the “present moment”, what overlap (if any) do you see between these two?

Michael
– Dharma Treasure teacher-in-training

• This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by  Michael Dunn.

[Michael DunnMember]

Hello GC,

I see the Loving Kindness (LK) practice as a beautiful practice to complement to the more traditional shamatha practices, and would recommend a balance of both.

As you quote the book, if you are interested in achieving effortless stable attention, then the breath is recommended. Yes, in theory, one could develop shamatha solely through LK, but LK has a different goal than that, so practice for these reasons too. So, ask yourself what you want to achieve with your meditation practice, and decide from there.

All work done on the cushion, if you are practicing diligently, i.e. according to the instructions, is a worthwhile meditation. Your training in attention will not decline by you doing LK, if you work diligently.

In my experience, a balanced approach is always the healthiest way forward.

Michael
Dharma Treasure teacher-in-training

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