[Meshe MooetteMember]

We can have an intellectual understanding of anatta, that will not necessarily manifest compassionate behaviour. When intellectual understanding progressively deepens and blossoms as insight (which also deepens), and that insight informs behaviour- that is what we call compassion. We become unable to act with aggression or seduction towards beings and objects, and this begins to look like love and care as the fetters fall away.

For example, it’s relatively easy to understand that the referent of the word “say your name here” is a collection of parts- moments of time, or the collection of body and mind (which is itself a label on a collection of parts). This is an intellectual understanding of the constructed nature of self.

But what does it mean when someone slaps us in the face, we feel bad, or are not recognized? What when we get something we want, feel good and are well known?

Quite clearly in our own experience, when any of the above happen, there is a sense that “it happened to me”.

Reflected back to that basic sense of “me” are “my feelings” “my experiences”. It is a divided consciousness “vijnana” in sanskrit.

Probing into that sense of “me” and “mine” we find that suffering IS clinging to that temporary, compounded, constructed sense of “me” as if it were other than it is.

This is insight into personal self-less-ness. Not a total absence of self, but a total absence of a permanent, autonomous and independent self.

We don’t realize how much energy it takes to continually hold onto this false notion of self and other. As our grip loosens, there is a liberation of energy- in some traditions it is even said that this energy, the energy of mental and physical pliancy, is the cause of insight. It is why shamatha is often quoted as a necessary precursor to fully developed insight. Imagine if this energy, instead of manifesting as aggression and seduction, arose as spontaneous, benevolent actions informed by wisdom. La-voila, compassion!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vijñāna

[Meshe MooetteMember]

Hi Griffin!

It is an emptiness meditation on the constructed nature of self- we see how “the person who is suffering jealousy” arises (and with powerful mindfulness, see how it passes away too). It is called unfindable, as we will never be able to find that self as a discreet, point-out-a-ble entity.

There is a list of trained facilitators (some of whom I’ve experienced as wonderfully kind, spacious facilitators of the inquiry) here:
https://www.livinginquiries.com/facilitators/.

Meditation will develop powerful mindfulness, and these mental patterns will become increasingly transparent as mere thoughts/sensations, the sense of being tormented by the passing thoughts and feelings will diminish and diminish.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.059.mend.html

So keep meditating =)

[Meshe MooetteMember]

The best time to sit and investigate is in the heat of the moment, if at all possible. Looking at the thoughts, mental images and sensations- ask, “what does this say about me?” This can help to get to core beliefs around a sense of self “I’m unloveable” “I’m a victim” etc. Then by gently observing the thoughts, images and sensations- inquire if any one of them in and by itself is that- the me that is unloveable:a victim etc.

This is a rough synopsis of a meditation called the Unfindable Inquiry- developed by Scott Kiloby (Living Inquiries).

What I have found is that triggering will continue until core beliefs are ungrasped/seen through and that it’s very useful to have a series of dedicated sessions just to work with unravelling and exploring these triggers. Of course, being gentle patient and kind to ourself in this process.

[Meshe MooetteMember]

Hi Griffin!

Every time the strong compulsion of jealousy arises and you are able to be with it without acting on it- that compulsion grows weaker. It will be strong and uncomfortable for as long as it takes but it will diminish as you refuse to buy into it as you have been doing so courageously.

One thing that has been helpful to me with this emotion is to deeply contemplate the following: don’t I want that person to be happy? (Even if it means I don’t get what I want like their attention/affection?). If you can come to the place where you recognize that your love for them would be undiminished regardless of circumstances- jealousy has no place in such a mind. It seems to me that love is the absence of self-clinging (a spectrum is possible)- and that this contemplation can reduce self-clinging which automatically reduces afflictive emotions.

Along with recognizing the the arising abiding and passing away of thoughts-story (which occur in the present moment- but may have content projecting a past or future) do you differentiate the arising abiding and passing away of strong physical sensations during a “jealousy occurrence” as well?

Mental suffering comes from identifying with the projected self of the story or identifying the strong physical sensations as “mine”.

All the best, Meshe

[Meshe MooetteMember]

Hi Peter!

Things are often less either-or than the conceptual mind would like…

for example, “are insights deliberately cultivated (a technique to trigger it) or is it by chance through continued practice?” Continued practice IS deliberately cultivating insight (or preparing the ground for insight). The thing that is not truly predictable is when an Insight (capital I) will appear for each individual. Correct (meaning diligent-following the instructions to the best of your ability, relaxed and joyful) practice will prepare the mind better than the opposite of that.

“Are worldly desires and materialism a hindrance to insight. For example, sex, new cars, fine dining, or the stock market. Do desires/aversions prevent insights, or do desires/aversions minimize as a result of insight?”

Seeing how desire and aversion arise and understanding them fully is insight. So desire/aversion preventing insight would really depend on how fully the practitioner understands the 4 noble truths. For example, if worldly desire keeps a practitioner running after happiness that they think comes from objects- that would deepen the craving groove in their mind- the opposite direction of insight. It is also true that desire and aversion falls away as a result of insight. Once there is enough deeply integrated insight, the arising of craving can actually serve to deepen insight into the nature of suffering and no self.

Here’s my take on the middle question (interested to hear other responses):

It’s a spectrum- insight moves through the conceptual to become deeply intuitive- like an effortless fragrance.

An intellectual understanding moves through the mind- “Oh, I know (key words for intellectual understanding) that there is ultimately no separate self outside of conceptual designation, and that everything is causally interconnected, that acting out of aversion will deepen that habit pattern of the mind, so I will refrain from verbally abusing this person.” When insights deepen and become intuitive, craving subsides and so the actions arising from belief in separate self also abate.

Yours,
Meshe

[Meshe MooetteMember]

Hello Becky!

Try here: https://dharmatreasure.org/section/dharma-talks/curriculum/

It does contain specific talks regarding the 8 fold path.

Yours,

Meshe
-DT Teacher in Training

[Meshe MooetteMember]

Thank you for sharing that article to show what you mean by renunciation.

One thing I appreciate about TMI as a book, is it’s subtlety. When you train in shamatha, that is the same thing as the first step of renunciation described in that article, don’t you think?

“Renunciation simply reverses this causal chain. You avoid sensory contact, especially with objects that fuel craving. (“Objects” here includes people and experiences.) If your external environment is extremely bland, the raging fire of lust gradually subsides, and suffering decreases.” (quoted from the article)

Shamatha training as presented in TMI leads to an equanimous mind- which is a mind in which craving is not arising. Even if you didn’t go to a cave, you still must make some significant lifestyle alterations to meditate even an hour a day, consistently. Reaching the higher stages requires extending this equanimous non-craving mind to the whole day (mindful review practise helps with this).

“Memory and habit keep some flames burning, so the second phase of renunciation is internal. Vipassana disassembles all mental structures, until there’s no machinery left in which suffering could occur. This too is a process of disconnection and inhibition.” (quotes from the discussed article)

In TMI, techniques are introduced in the chapters on the later stages that are intended to generate insight experience (vipassana). As a whole, TMI the book is more focused on shamatha, but I find it skillfully weaves in models and suggestions at all the stages that can lead to profound insight. Appreciating the “a-ha” moment of spontaneous awareness after mind-wandering, for example.

It seems to me that as time goes on, and the commentarial material on what the Buddha said expands, things get said, things get written that apply to certain people at certain times. We need to be able to figure out what applies to us, and when.

The article says that the 1st step for a sutrayana approach is contemplation of suffering to generate revulsion. I can see how that would bring someone to the path. Just like having the death of a loved one might wake a person up to the fact that even good things and relationships are not lasting sources of happiness.

I like how I have heard Culadasa frame the 1st Noble Truth- ” pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.”

Here is a comprehensive article by Culadasa, covering explicitly what has been subtly woven into TMI:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/dharmatreasure/20130322–what-the-buddha-thought–handout.pdf

Here too is a link to an article by Culadasa that may illuminate the understanding and use of pleasure and joy in meditation practise:

https://dharmatreasure.org/wp-content/uploads/Meditation%20and%20Joy%20Handout.pdf

All the best!

Meshe
-DT Teacher-in-Training

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by  Meshe Mooette.

[Meshe MooetteMember]

Hi Samuel!

Yes- let’s clarify, how do you understand the renunciate methods as destroying passion?

The 3 nominal divisions (mind division, space division and pith instructions) of Dzogchen teachings made by Manjushrimitra aren’t self-exclusive, but are more like three ingredients in one cake, or three ways of looking at a jewel, not separate truly.

Below are 3 quotes to support my previous comments, if we can agree to accept the perspectives presented by Dudjom Lingpa, Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche and Patrul Rinpoche as authorities on the subject- or at least accept them as having a broader frame of reference for these topics than we do. (There is also a lovely book by the Dalai Lama entitled “Dzogchen” that contains the same perspective of the shared path being shamatha and vipassana).

1. https://learn.wisdompubs.org/academy/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/08/Shamatha-and-Vipashyana-Lesson-1-Reading-1.pdf

The texts in this series point to just four practices as being indispensable (for all but the most gifted adepts) on the Dzokchen path to enlightenment: śamatha, vipaśyanā, cutting through, and direct crossing over, in that order. Our most condensed texts, the Sharp Vajra of Conscious Awareness Tantra and the Enlightened View of Samantabhadra, explain only these four practices, without elaborating on the preliminary practices or the stages of generation and completion. (Meshe’s addition: stages of generation and completion are tantra- so here too, shamatha vipassana is presented as basis for tantra). Accomplishing these four practices alone is in principle sufficient to achieve any one of the three levels of rainbow body that signify the culmination of the path of the Great Perfection.

In comparison, the Vajra Essence presents a more elaborate account of the path to achieving the perfect enlightenment of a buddha, beginning with a brief reference to the four common and seven uncommon preliminary practices, then proceeding through śamatha, vipaśyanā, a wide range of practices in the Vajrayāna stages of generation and completion, and finally the two phases of practice of the Great Perfection. These texts repeatedly state that to practice the Great Perfection, it is indispensable to achieve śamatha—in which the mind dissolves into the substrate consciousness and you experience bliss, luminosity, and nonconceptuality— heart of the great perfection and to realize the emptiness of all phenomena, the goal of vipaśyanā.

2. The Nature of Mind: The Dzogchen Instructions of Aro Yeshe Jungne
By Khenchen Palden Sherab, Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal, Patrul Rinpoche

“all Dzogchen meditation, including these instructions by Aro Yeshe Jungne, involve practising the unity of shamatha and vipashyana. This is true even when the names “shamatha” and “vipashyana” are not explicitly mentioned. In Dzogchen, relaxing without focus and without distraction is shamatha, and seeing the true nature exactly as it is is vipashyana”.

3. http://nalandabodhi.org/courses/path-of-meditation/

The Path of Meditation journey consists of three stages:

1. Shamatha-Vipashyana, which includes “calm abiding” meditation, or shamatha, and vipashyana or “clear insight,” also called analytical meditation.
2. Mind Training (lojong in Tibetan), at which stage Nalandabodhi students rely on traditional Indian and Tibetan Buddhist instructions to train in the qualities of loving kindness, compassion, and bodhichitta, the heart of awakening.
3. Further Journeys: Following the mind trainings, and in consultation with your Practice Instructor, a Nalandabodhi student may request to begin ngondro, the series of preliminary practices unique to the Vajrayana tradition. These practices prepare the student to enter into the profound practice paths of Vajrayana, Mahamudra, and Dzogchen, under the guidance of Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche, who presents these traditions based upon authentic transmissions that have been passed down from master to student for centuries in India, Tibet, and, now, the Western hemisphere.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by  Meshe Mooette.

[Meshe MooetteMember]

Hi Samuel!

Thank you for bringing these topics up.

I would disagree about tantra and dzogchen being non-renunciate methods. Especially if we are using the definition of renunciation as giving up the belief in self-existence. Rather, they are built on renunciation and require as a basis shamatha-vipassana. To not have that basis would be taking the practises out of context. The tantric practise of working with emotion is deep and powerful, and as you say, requires a high understanding of emptiness and personal selflessness. Those understandings arise from renouncing the view of self-existence.

All throughout my studies with teachers in the Mahayana, Vajrayana and Dzogchen traditions, this has been emphasized over and over again.

When working with strong emotions whose flavours arise as unpleasant, if they are actually transformed, that indicates that the empty, impermanent self-less nature has been clearly seen. That can most definitely happen when working with the purifications that happen in shamatha-vipassana training such as TMI.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by  Meshe Mooette.

[Meshe MooetteMember]

Hi Alex!

What a great question.

Insight develops from intellectual understanding to an intuitive understanding through study, contemplation and meditation. What may have brought you to study, contemplate and meditate?

There is a spectrum of faith- from blind faith (that person is a Lama, so everything they teach must be true and will get me out of suffering) to a faith built on logical analysis, grown from direct perception (that teacher is kind, knowledgeable of the path, appears to have realization, teaches with joy and never tires of explaining the path, they are speaking clearly of my direct experiences- so it follows that they can help me).

An intuitive understanding will appear to “come on its own” like a fine fragrance- but you put all the ingredients in the pot (8 fold path) and stirred it with your practise.

It seems to me that the refuge and bodhisattva vows are a type of bolstering “I do not believe in this”- even though our actions may clearly show that we do believe in self-existence (such as when aversion and craving arise). They can give us a way to “fake-it-till-we-make-it”, sometimes called candy-cane bodhichitta. Then, since we have made that firm decision to look into this belief, it permeates the day with an investigative flavour- and when we sit to meditate, the data collected there has an organizing principle.

“Working hard to get my fill
Everybody wants a thrill
Payin’ anything to roll the dice
Just one more time
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on
Don’t stop, believing!” – Journey

[Meshe MooetteMember]

Hi Nick!

If the slightly loud breathing is intentional, it would be best to stop that habit and allow the breath to be natural and un-controlled. I agree with Ollie’s comments above regarding the breath.

Use labelling as frequently as you feel you are in a stage 3 type of sit. When things become more stable, then try letting go of it and apply stage 4 intentions, to see if you can maintain continuous introspective awareness.

It sounds like you are becoming aware of alternating attention- something that stage 6 practise addresses, and that we allow to be there up to (and including) stage 5 practise. It’s a good sign, so please don’t drive yourself crazy as so many of us do with the timescales. A novice meditator feels they are paying attention to two things, but now it sounds like you are noticing the micro-movements of attention between your chosen object and other objects. Also, since you are starting to notice alternating attention, it can serve as a sign/reminder to renew your intention to focus on breath sensations, before the alternating attention turns into a scattering of attention to distracting objects.

So you are using the mental phrase “what am I thinking” to develop continuous introspective awareness?

[Meshe MooetteMember]

Hi Samuel!

Well, you can’t get into the higher stages with significant aversion or craving. If we define renunciation as renouncing the belief in self-existence, since that belief is what gives rise to aversion and craving, it follows that one cannot exhibit the higher stages of meditation and awakening without renunciation.

Using unpleasant emotion- in TMI- I can think of many ways someone following the meditative path using TMI as a guide could use unpleasant emotion. One could investigate the mind-system model, and determine the way the discriminating mind functions in our own experience. One could investigate the beliefs that give rise to those unpleasant emotions- such as the emotionally charged and tightly held belief in an enduring self and other. One could investigate using mindful review practise, so beautifully described in Appendix E.

[Meshe MooetteMember]

I had been developing stable attention and powerful mindfulness, studying dharma intensively with many teachers and maintaining bodhisattva vows for 7 years before I even heard about noting practise.

The progress of insight is a map that I was only rather recently (a year and half ago) introduced to, and although I have studied it, received teachings on it and recognized experiences when reading through the map- I tend to conceptualize the process in a less detailed way. So, I’d be hard-pressed to discuss it without the map in front of me on paper =). The way I understand it, the dukkha nana’s are part of the process, and that having a more unified, equanimous mind doesn’t prevent passing through that- but it makes the process smoother and easier.

I am quite familiar with dark night experiences- where insights into impermanence and no-self meet and begin shatter strongly grasped beliefs in the opposite. They are quite different than regular mental affliction. That’s actually how I came to study with Culadasa, after reading the section on “dark night” in TMI- it re-inspired practise in shamatha-vipassana and the 8 fold path. Recognizing that these dark night experiences were in fact direct knowledge of suffering (the process of grasping to separate Self-hood and things as independent entities) is actually a joyful process, from one perspective. Hey! THAT’s what suffering’s root is! Great!

We can only work with where we are, and what unfolds for us. A life event could happen at any time that pulls the rug out, and forces insight into impermanence, for example. There’s some great advice on pg. 259 about how to minimize the psychological trauma associated with maturing Insight.

Wishing you all the best Jevan!

Meshe

_________________FROM TMI Stage 9 Chapter______________

“keep in mind, attachment to Insight can itself be an impediment. It’s far better to surrender all hopes and expectations. Just practice from a place of trust, for the sake of whatever your meditation may bring. These Insights will come in their own time. Awakening is an accident, but meditating on the mind is a practice that will make you accident-prone.” – pg 334

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[Meshe MooetteMember]

Incorporate whatever practise works, towards awakening. Noting is fantastic, as is dedicated practise to a technique that is functioning well for you. TMI provides a beautiful, nuanced roadmap- you chart your way up the mountain. I did a period of intense noting that paid off in spades through the door of impermanence.

____________________

“Rather than argue for any specific technique, this book will help you make sense of all these different approaches without having to reject any of them.” – xix

“The practice offered in this book doesn’t have to be a replacement for other techniques, but instead can complement any other type of meditation you already do. You can use the 10 stages approach in combination with, or as a precursor to, any of the many Mahayana or Theravadin practices.” – xxi

[Meshe MooetteMember]

Good morning!

I have a soft spot for Goenka-ji retreats, having started my meditation career with them, and experienced deep benefit.

That being said, I do wish I had been introduced to the conceptual framework presented in TMI with regards to what constitutes shamatha, what defines vipassana and how ones meditation experiences translate into a map of stages.

You can most certainly apply the information presented in TMI to gauge the goals and skills that you should be working with to develop stable attention and continuous introspective awareness.

For example, if you find that you begin a body-scan practice a la Goenka-ji, and are drawn off by attention becoming fused with thought- you can apply the skills for stage 1-2-3 that work to overcome forgetting and mind-wandering (such as appreciating the “aha” moment of spontaneous return, to train attention).

I would approach this from an inclusive perspective- where do the practices compliment each other? For example, the first 3 days of a 10-day retreat are spent on annapanna- breath meditation, where the skill development presented in TMI can easily be incorporated.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by  Meshe Mooette.

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