[Darlene TMember]

Hello,

You will notice in your meditation that at times nothing is where we think it should be lol. Ricardo, eye position response is helpful for sure. The stage you are at may also determine any answer one might provide. To Lemmefly…there is a difference between the “initial appearance, and the acquired appearance of the breath…in the earlier stages the breath is quite conceptual even though we locate it at the nostril. We often think breathing and the experience though physical is often is quite conceptual.

As you say “breath sensations are at the center of the field of attention. In about stage five, or any time, you might realize the only way this breath takes place is the fact that it is the body that is breathing; air doesn’t invade or push into the body…it is the function of the body that receives the air. This is the “acquired” appearance of the breath…fully experiential and non conceptual. It is possible lemmefly, that until that takes place in your meditation practice, the minds attention rests on the space in front (as in the preparations), and then fills it up with mental activity. Great question, affirms your continued introspective capacities.
Hope you find this helpful.

Darlene

[Darlene TMember]

Hi Tom, I relate to and support Kim’s response and believe it is spot on. I do think that Culadasa’s teachings would be and are applicable in any tradition, and as a Mahayana/Zen and Vajrayana practioner myself there is no conflict provided there is some understanding of why we are practicing a particular practice and where it will take us. Remember, beyond any formal system of practice is the impact the practice has on our heart and mind. The behavior of a Bodhisattva doesn’t require formality of a tradition. This way of being in the world is the primary essence/injunction of the Mahayana path. Best wishes!

Darlene

[Darlene TMember]

Hi Roger,

It might be that as you say, your patience is well practiced. I believe you are actually leaning into stage 5 practice without the benefit of the earlier practices. I would certainly encourage going forward with the following, connecting, labeling! Best wishes,

N Darlene Tataryn (TMI teacher in training)

[Darlene TMember]

Hi Chris,

The body certainly is sensational and energetic as you have well experienced. Play around with it more…reduce the scope of attention to just one foot and so on…include larger parts such as both legs and pelvis, or just the torso. It doesn’t mean you won’t have sensations in other parts of the body but leave them to the periphery while you focus on the chosen part. Experience the whole body…and “this can’t be right” is not correct. Yes, it is part of the process. It was a perfectly good meditation! Best wishes,

Darlene Tataryn (TMI Teacher in Training)

[Darlene TMember]

Hello,

Perhaps try this. Think bottom to top. Place your attention at tantien/hara about 4 inches down from the belly button and move attention to mid body or another 4 inches in. Breathe and experience expansion throughout the whole abdomen…as if radiating from the centre of the body in all directions. You should be able to feel the expansion in the sides and in the back of your body.

Draw your breath in as if through a straw (making it even and long) and you will learn how allow the lower body to open fully to receive the diaphragm, pulling the lungs down and outward, receiving the air, that holds the chi. You can stop there….or…

Should you allow for a fuller breath, the sequence of your breathing is lower body into chest cavity with the same radiant expansion. This includes feeling the mild expansion under your collar bones where your ribs are and taking the breath right into the sinus cavities through the nose….and release. Remember it is the body that breathes… Best wishes!

Darlene Tataryn (TMI Teacher in Training)

[Darlene TMember]

Interesting conversation and helpful responses. As progress into deeper meditation takes place I tend to go with knowing or recognizing without the labeling…just as in experiencing any element… the rush of heat, or the feeling of air movement against the skin, we feel it and know it as it is experienced, as was suggested in different words in some prior responses.

This leads back to “piti” experiences. I know they are referred to often as mental events…I can’t quite say I understand why as they often are profoundly sensational physically, as well as various appearances of colors and other (mental) visual formations prior to the calming into sukkha. I treat these in the same way…

Our subtle feeling reactions to these experiences take us into the dependent origination loop and hindrances that we can become aware of..releasing any contraction that results helps us deepen and move through the stage. Best wishes…

Darlene T (Teacher in training)

[Darlene TMember]

Hey Tony!

You are welcome! Enjoy the exploration. Re Nick G and anatta…yes TMI definitely helps with strong dukkha in that it really explains in western language what Buddha was teaching about one of the three marks (anicca, dukkha, anatta) of existence and how we entangle in our own self contraction and suffer…quite the ride!

Darlene
(TMI Teacher in Training)

[Darlene TMember]

LOL….also The Dharma Centre of Canada in northern Ontario (two hours from Toronto…and then there is also Clear Sky near Fort Steele in BC. main teachers being Sensei Doug Duncan and Catherine P. Lama Mark Weber has a retreat centre on Galiano Island called Crystal Mountain and he is well known to lead long retreats…and travels alot. These as well as the Hermitage are Karma Kagyu centres though more specifically Universalist as Namgyal Rinpoche, the root teacher of Kema Ananda and many other major Canadian Teachers. Ok…I think thats it : )

Darlene

[Darlene TMember]

Hi Again Jhapeti James!

There is also The Hermitage on Denman Island off the Coast of Vancouver Island BC…a beautiful rustic setting for long term sitting and good teaching resources.

Darlene Tataryn (TMI Teacher in Training)

[Darlene TMember]

Hello Jhapeti James!

arrowriverforest@gmail.com; This is the email address to contact Punnadhammo at the Arrow River Hermitage near Thunder Bay…I’m sure he would be happy to hear from you!

Darlene Tataryn (TMI Teacher in Training)

[Darlene TMember]

Sounds like piti experiences and an ultra lite Jhana to me1

Darlene (Teacher in Training)

[Darlene TMember]

Hello Samuel,

Quite an exploration! I am becoming more and more interested in the kinds of involuntary movements you are speaking of and how they might be the same, or different, on or off the cushion. I’m glad you were able to speak to a Lama who was able to guide you regarding too much effort. Effort of any kind results in muscular tension in some or another muscle group. In a sense, meditation allows for greater relaxation of muscle tension, while the effort may contribute to more muscle tension. The body’s attempt to both release or let go, and tighten up and not let go could certainly result in increased involuntary movement.

Violent movement in the legs can point to restless leg syndrome…and experience with some individuals has shown me that by doing alot of hip joint flexing, and strong extentions consciously, that the leg movements will settle down if you work with it regularly to release the build up of muscular/ energetic tension.

That said, unless there is an underlying neurophysiological basis, movement is often part of a purification process which I interpret as a promising sign. Looking forward to hearing how it all goes.

Darlene T (TMI Teacher in training)

[Darlene TMember]

Hi Jerry,

Good question…and an answer might depend on intention. If you are working with “the body of the breath” you can note the changes in your breathing as you experience the purification. When the body sensation is strong and has some attention and your chosen object is the breath you can say attention is alternating between breath and sensation. You may want to work with the physical body. Given the strength of the sensation and the resultant strong bodily movements I would suggest going with the bodily release or purification…Note the physical, emotional effect (such as more relaxed and soft and aware… and note the theme of the mental emotional event) and return to the breath as soon as you can.

Staying with the sensation and getting pulled away into discursive thought requires some delineation. Is there a theme; is the content associative and wandering from subject to subject; is there something that demands attention that you are avoiding; what is the message. Some times we just have to face the feeling behind the anger…Think like this if you like…meditation creates a vaccume…it pulls unconscious feeling and memory forward into awareness…and if we give it the right kind of attention which is the attention that looks and experiences it directly (as opposed to feeding the fires of the distress of anger etc.) we purify. Return to the breath and the beauty of it.

I do hope this is helpful to you…it certainly is something we all struggle with at different times in life.

Darlene Tataryn (TMI Teacher in Training)

[Darlene TMember]

Hi Filipe,

In my mind, if the emotions are strong they already are centre stage. Pushing them away or holding them close and building into the emotionality are both problematic. However, as Blake says, if they keep pulling your attention they need acknowledgement at very least and at best be labelled for what they are.

To do this, return to the sensations of your body and feel into the sensation of the emotion, perhaps in your chest or belly and say something like “release, relax, breathe”. If they don’t vanish try the following. Because the emotion is an intangible sensational event, inquire…”what emotion is this related to…fear or threat, happiness, anger, sadness…and allow your body and mind to tell you.

Is this about relationship? Is the feeling related to things that happen between people such as “sad…I feel dismissed, abandoned, rejected, etc. Then ask, what deeper feeling does this bring about…such as “because I feel dismissed, I feel alone, loss of relationship, indadequate etc.

Find labelling words that resonate and experience the feeling…and Breathe breathe breathe…soften your belly and the physiological contractions that come with strong emotions…don’t build into a story, just identify what is immediate.. Then return to your primary meditation object. This is the short answer lol. Hope it helps.

Darlene Tataryn (TMI Teacher in Training)

[Darlene TMember]

Hello and Welcome Elea.

Perhaps, given you are still experiencing gross distractions, this would still be a good time to make what was an unconscious process (introspective awareness that prevented forgetting and wandering) into a more conscious and intentional process. Be curious about your minds capacity to be aware of its activity, and its tending toward a subtle or gross distraction in real time! Its a great opportunity and the key word is “briefly”. It takes a momentary flash of awareness…”briefly” focusing awareness toward the process of the mind… and notice as attention transitions and slips away from the object…Catch those moments leading up to the gross or subtle distraction. That will take you quite nicely into Stage 4.

Best Wishes,
Darlene Tataryn (TMI Teacher in Training)

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