[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Samuel,

Not everyone experiences involuntary movements during meditation. I don’t really know the percentage. Some people have very gentle movements like swaying or the twitching of a finger or thumb. However, some people do experience very strong involuntary movements.

Have you had any indications that you might have some of these movements? How long have you practiced, and how long do you typically sit?

As you approach the higher stages, it is more likely, but some experience this during the lower stages.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

If you would like a one-on-one interview, and a consultation with Culadasa is not within your budget. We have the following list of Dharma Treasure teachers and teachers in training, and many offer interviews (on a donation basis) via phone, Skype, or in person, if you happen to be local.

https://dharmatreasure.org/teachers-in-training/

In the near future, we will be producing a more structured list of teachers sorted by TMI stage and or teaching specialties.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the follow up. It is helpful to the entire community when members share their experience of things that do and do not help. We are all slightly different, and we respond differently to different practices.

If you wish to donate to an individual teacher you can send them a private message through this forum to set up the details. If you click on a person’s name you will be taken to her/his profile where there is a private message option.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi ST1000,

As you are seeing, practices can be cumulative and most any spiritual practice can increase the energy flow and lead to imbalances for those that are sensitive.

Some people work through the energy imbalances, and it stops being an issue. For others it can go on for long periods of time. The spiritual path can often be difficult.

There are a couple of things that might help. Try resting for 5-10 minutes after your meditation without doing any sort of technique before getting up and going about your day. This can help the energy smooth out.

Physical exercise can also help after meditation. This can be as simple as a brisk walk, or something more intense if you are capable.

I also recommend working with acceptance. This is what the path is like for you right now. Try to realize that the energy is really just body sensations that won’t hurt you. Notice the sensations with mindfulness, and particularly notice your resistance to them. This resistance can be thoughts, or additional emotions (more body sensations). Mindfulness is one of the most important skills that you can develop.

If your daily life and sleep is disrupted you might need to cut back even further on your practices until you find a level that allows you to function.

Please keep us informed,
Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

I would recommend if you are only going to do 5 minutes is that you do the basic breath meditation described in The Mind Illuminated. I also recommend slowly increasing the length of your meditation sessions.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Jason,

I would recommend starting with mindfulness during walking meditation to get the hang of it. You can then take the mindfulness into simple repetitive tasks like doing dishes or brushing your teeth.

After that, you can take your mindfulness into more complicated tasks like cooking a meal.

Once you are comfortable doing that you can try mindfulness while driving when there is not much traffic. When practicing mindfulness while driving you want to direct your attention to the process of driving. For example, the seeing of other cars and the road, the sounds of other cars and things like sirens, and the feel or your hands on the steering wheel. You also want to keep a spacious awareness which is needed to drive successfully. Your attention will not stay with any one object very long.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Sam,

Thanks for your feedback. That sounds like a good idea, and I will forward it on to Culadasa.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

You’re welcome. Please keep us informed about your “yoga practice alongside TMI”. I think we can all learn a lot from each other.

Blake

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

You’re welcome. Thanks for taking the time to give us feedback. It is really helpful for us to know whether our advice works or not. Please let us know if we can service in the future.

Best of Luck,
Blake

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi ST1000,

You are welcome. I know when I keep a more spacious awareness (peripheral awareness) while doing TMI practice it calms the energy and spontaneous movements, and is more pleasant. You might also notice any resistance or aversion to the energy which can keep it entrenched. If you have a more spacious awareness you are more likely to notice mental resistance.

Yoga can also increase the energy, particularly if you are doing longer sessions. In shorter doses it can also calm energy, so you may just need to experiment. I know you probably don’t want to cut back on your practices, but sometimes you have to take one step backwards before you can take two forward.

Retreats can go either way. They can significantly increase energy, but at the same time you can work through some obstructions, and things will settle down. Jack Kornfield tells a story of being on a long retreat and his arms started to flap like a bird for days at a time. His teacher asked him if he had aversion to these flapping sensations. He realized that he did, and after he let go of all resistance the flapping stopped, and he had a deep release.

Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

Good Luck,
Blake – DT Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi JavaJeff,

I have dealt with energy issues throughout my practice. I have spent periods of time where AYP was my main practice. The spinal breath has helped smooth out the energy flow, but I have not gotten to the point where it has become totally smooth (no spontaneous movements). Early on I tried too hard to get everything “just right” in the spinal breathing practice, and it was frustrating. More recently I learned to just have the intention to do the practice and accept whatever result happened, and it made this practice more effective.

Years ago I had Culadasa read Yogani’s book “Advanced Yoga Practices – Easy Lessons for Ecstatic Living”, and he felt like it was the real deal, and he immediately recognized that Piti and Kundalini are the same thing.

I have done spinal breathing prior to doing TMI based breath meditation, and they seem to work OK together. However, I think there is something unique about doing spinal breathing followed by Yogani’s mantra meditation. I urge caution with the mantra meditation, because it also moves energy around, and over 20 minutes can easily lead to energy overloads. People who are sensitive have to use less than 20 minutes.

I have applied the TMI techniques to mantra meditation. TMI is centered around breath meditation, but it can be applied to most meditation objects. Yogani recommends observing the mantra with a more spacious awareness, and that is also compatible with TMI. I think Yogani has more detail about working with kundalini/piti than any other author that I have read. This is why I sometimes refer students to his writings. The thing that I see missing is the mindfulness component.

It just so happens that I am reading Reginald Rae’s book, and I am just about to start the chapter on “central channel” meditations.

Hope this helps,

Blake – DT Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

I think it is a good idea to follow your own instincts. Different practices work for different people, and at different times along the path.

It sounds like you are getting energy overloads when following the TMI approach. If you want to continue working with this practice you could try less meditation each day (like 15-20 minutes) and slowly work your way up. When you get to the point where you are getting issues in your daily life then you can back off a bit.

Some of us are very sensitive to meditation, and it does not take that much to cause an overload. The following article is from Yogani who teaches a style of yogic meditation that produces a considerable amount of energy. I learned the spinal breathing from his web site. Not everything in the article will apply to you, but you can substitute piti for the word kundalini. Culadasa feels that they are the same thing.

https://www.aypsite.org/69.html

Another thing to consider is why the MBSR techniques are working better for you. Are you more relaxed and spacious when you are doing them? Do you have a different attitude and less striving?

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Altj1a,

The inner light (illumination) typically appears with the eyes closed. I am really not sure if it appears with the eyes open. I have also heard teachers say that the inner illumination does not appear for everyone even if the concentration is quite deep.

You might want to emphasize the following definition of Pacification of the Senses. “Complete pacification of the senses means that normal sensory information no longer get projected into consciousness, because the sensory sub-minds have grown temporarily quiescent.”

Pacification of the Senses typically precedes physical pliancy. I have heard Culadasa mention that there is quite a bit of variability in how the higher stages unfold for different people.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi John,

I just noticed that your question never got answered. Sorry for the delay. Yes, you can just set the intention to focus on the breath without blocking anything else?

And yes you can also do this just through placing a gentle attention on the breath?

It is easy to over complicate this process, but it is as simple as that.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Dear B. Lejon and Java Jeff,

It is quite common that as you try to notice more details of the breath that you tend to lose peripheral awareness. This means that you have not yet developed sufficient power of mind to do both. There are two reasons that you get lost in thought when to try too hard to notice details of the breath. One is that you loose peripheral awareness, and you do not notice movements of attention. The other is that trying too hard agitates the mind.

I recommend emphasizing peripheral awareness over trying to follow the breath too closely. The peripheral awareness will allow you to see movements of attention much earlier. Please remember that you do not have to put an extra layer of effort on top of intention. If a meditation technique is difficult it probably means you are using the trying, doing, judging part of your mind instead of trusting intention. You want your meditation to be pleasant, relaxed and spacious.

I recommend taking a look at Culadasa’s clarification on this topic here.

http://dharmatreasurecommunity.org/forums/topic/questions-and-clarifications-about-peripheral-awareness

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

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