[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Samuel,

Thanks for the update. It is good to build up a knowledge base of information. I will be interested to see if less effort effects the movements during TMI practice.

Best Wishes,
Blake

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Filipe,

The forum is only set up to send emails when a new topic is added, but not for individual replies. You can subscribe within the forum to individual topics, and then you will receive emails.

I recommend that you read stage 4 and the third interlude for more information on working with these purifications. In a nutshell, if emotions or thoughts are very strong and they keep pulling your attention then you want to switch and make these your meditation object.

Please remember that not every emotion that comes up will be considered a purification, and emotions can arise at any stage of practice.

Certainly in following TMI practice you are going to work with emotions, thoughts and the physical body. I don’t know that there was a deliberate intention within TMI to “work down these three centers”, but we are studying our entire experience and these are all part of that. This practice will transform our relationship to these experiences.

Best Wishes,
Blake

• This reply was modified 7 years ago by  Blake Barton.

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Filipe,

It sounds you might have experienced Stage 4 meditation during your session, and the emotions and memories could have been some of the purification that often arises at that stage. A lack of introspective awareness would not have caused those things to arise, but if your attention was captured by those things then that might indicated a lack of introspective awareness.

There are various ways to interpret the anapanasati sutta, but to me it indicates a considerable amount of awareness of things other than the sensations of breath.

He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.'[2] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.’

He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.’

He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.’

In stage 6 one does work on developing exclusive attention, and in stages 7 and 8 there is a pacification of the senses. However, introspective awareness is still active and cultivated.

I can understand your desire not to read ahead, but you might want to review the Overview of the Ten Stages chapter which might answer some of your questions and help to see the big picture of TMI.

Best Wishes,
Blake – DT Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Adrian,

You are most welcome. I really hope these suggestions are beneficial. You can learn to let go of the over analysis and over trying, but you can’t just make them stop. Observing and labeling those patterns with equanimity is a good way to let go of them. Just get to know them like old friends coming back to visit.

Please keep us informed.

Best Wishes,
Blake

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Filipe,

I think one needs to view my advice to Adrian in context. He stated the following “I have trouble maintaining attention to the breath for even one cycle”. To me this indicated a lack of peripheral introspective awareness.

For most of us, in the early stages, when we attempt to notice more detail we tend to lose peripheral awareness. We want to find a balance between the two. If we lack introspective awareness, we might notice a great deal of detail about the breath for a few seconds, but then we will not notice that our attention is captured by a thought. Culadasa defines mindfulness as the optimal interaction between attention and awareness, and he says many people have an awareness deficit disorder.

You don’t necessarily need to zoom in on a small physical area. You can develop great stability and clarity using a larger physical area. TMI uses this fact in Stage 6 to help help develop exclusive attention.

So my advice really depends on where you are in the stages. If you can notice a great deal of detail and still keep peripheral awareness then this advice might not apply to you.

Best Wishes,
Blake

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Adrian,

I recommend not spending much time trying to determine if the label is correct, and you don’t want to label the labeling process. For you, it seems like simpler more generic labels like see/hear/feel may be best.

When you don’t renew the intention to keep peripheral awareness “bright”, you say you are “not aware of sounds and body sensations? So is the breath the only thing in your consciousness at this point? Are you aware of any thoughts, particularly about the meditation process? I have a feeling that your attention is alternating between the breath and thoughts, analysis, and judgment about the meditation process. This may not allow much awareness of anything else. I went through a similar phase in my practice.

Trying to keep peripheral awareness “bright” might be part of your problem. I encourage you to experiment with focusing you vision on your finger (attention) and then noticing the process of peripheral vision (peripheral awareness). Do you have to keep renewing the intention to have peripheral vision or does it just happen? Is peripheral vision “ bright”, or are things a bit fuzzy and indistinct?

Another experiment would be to put your hand very close to your eyes with your eyes open. In this case it is difficult to have peripheral vision because your hand is blocking it. If you move your hand a distance from your eyes then peripheral vision starts happening again. This is what I mean by zooming out on the breath a little bit to allow more awareness.

Intentions are important, but it sounds like you are trying to put another layer of effort and “doing” on top of them. Any time we do anything, it means that there was an intention to do it (some of these may be unconscious). If you are feeling the sensations of the breath, if means you had an intention to do it. As soon as you notice that your attention has moved away from the breath, you have the intention to bring it back. You don’t necessarily need to verbalize this intention, the noticing just starts happening again.

As an experiment, raise your arm above your head.

If it happened, it means you had an intention to do it. Did you have to constantly renew the intention while the arm was being raised? Did you need to think about “how” to raise your arm? Did you need to verbalize something like “raise my arm” to get it to happen?

I certainly empathize with you as I have spent a great deal of time over thinking and analyzing the process. There are quite a few things to do in TMI, and for some of us we overdo trying to get everything just right. I recommend moving towards simplicity as much as possible.

Best Wishes,
Blake – DT Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Adrian,

Yes, you can use see/hear/feel labels, and the see/hear label works well to deconstruct thoughts.

When you say labeling generates thoughts, do you mean the label itself is a thought, or that you have thoughts about the label, or labeling in general just tends to lead to more random thoughts? You don’t want to label the label, but if you have thoughts about the label, or additional thoughts, you can simply label them.

Labeling is more discursive then silent noticing, but it is just a means to an end. At some point you will let go of the labeling once your attention has stabilized.

When you say peripheral awareness fades if you don’t renew your intention regularly, what exactly happens? Are you only aware of the breath at that point? Are you not aware of sounds or your body sensations? It is natural for some people to turn peripheral awareness into something that they have to do. The following clarification from Culadasa might be helpful.

https://dharmatreasurecommunity.org/forums/topic/questions-and-clarifications-about-peripheral-awareness

Think about how you intend to do other things in your life. How do you intend to walk or read? Do you consciously need to constantly renew your intention to do these things, or only once you have stopped walking or reading.

You might also spend time in the first step of the four step gradual transition to the meditation object. This practice is good for seeing how attention and awareness work, and you can also use labeling with this practice.

Thoughts are the distractions most likely to capture our attention, and that is why I think it is helpful to get to know them instead of fighting against them.

Best Wishes,
Blake

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Adrian,

I agree that introspective awareness is the skill that you want to develop, along with more acceptance. You want to learn to know when your attention moves away from the breath. I recommend doing a version of the labeling practice from Stage 3. With this version, I recommend labeling everything that captures your attention with a simple label, and then gently returning to the breath. This will give you a good idea what your attention is doing, and hopefully allow you to notice distractions sooner before they turn into forgetting. In particular make sure you label any frustration or judgment about your meditation practice. Long term this should build your introspective awareness.

Please note that this is different than the labeling practice from Stage 3, because with that practice you only use labeling after you wake up from forgetting.

You state that “I try to maintain peripheral awareness and tune into this every couple of breaths”. Peripheral awareness should be happening simultaneously with attention, without effort on your part. It sounds like you are probably moving attention to see if you have peripheral awareness.

When your attention is centered on the meditation object, are you aware of other things like sounds, body sensations and thoughts? If so, then you have peripheral awareness. If not, I would suggest you are zooming in and focusing too closely on the breath which makes it very difficult to stabilize attention. You want to take a mental step back and zoom out slightly so that your attention is centered on the breath, and you are still aware of other things in the background or alternating with the meditation object. Think of how focused vision and peripheral vision work together automatically.

I recommend keeping things simple and not overthinking it (coming from an over thinker). Either your attention is on the meditation object or it moves to some distraction that is not the meditation object. Just notice and label when your attention moves to a distraction, and direct your attention back to the meditation object. Try to let go of any judgment about what should be happening and get curious about what is happening.

Best Wishes,
Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Jamie,

Thanks for sharing, I will give that I try the next time I get the hiccups. I have noticed a similar situation with muscle spasms or cramps.

Blake – DT Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi David,

I read through through this thread again, and I don’t see any indication that Peter “admitted that he doesn’t understand the teaching”. You state that you “are not arguing or trying to change anything”, and perhaps that is not your intention, but your posts give a different impression.

Sharing “profound teachings” fits within the purpose of this discussion forum, and I am not quite sure why you have issues with this.

With Metta,
Blake

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi David,

I feel that the poem that Peter posted was appropriate for this forum. Hopefully, we can post things beyond the technical intricacies of TMI.

However, I found your posts to be sarcastic, and not within the boundaries of Right Speech. Please remember that we are forming an online community for the purpose of supporting and helping each other along the path. Maybe you did not find it valuable, but perhaps others did.

Thanks,
Blake Barton – Dharma Treasure Community Adminstrator

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Bobby and Prashant,

I was pondering how to answer this question, and Bobby’s answer was considerably better than what I had in mind. Thanks for interjecting, and for your clarity.

Blake

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Prashant,

As you have seen, you can turn your attention to thoughts, and in some traditions thoughts are used as the meditation object. So if you check in and continue to place your attention on thoughts you have basically switched to a new meditation object, but that is not the purpose of the checking in practice.

However, when it comes to monitoring other mental activities with attention it doesn’t work. Culadasa uses the following example in the book: “When attention is focused on remembering, you can’t use attention to know you are remembering.” Since attention can only be focused on one thing at a time, it can’t be focused on the remembering and the knowing simultaneously. However, awareness can know that you are remembering. These two capabilities of the mind work together to provide a complete picture. Attention drills down and notices details, but it does not necessarily notice context. We are trying to develop the optimal interaction between attention and awareness. Many people have an awareness deficit disorder.

Blake – DT Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Peter,

I have done four retreats with Shinzen, and they were a positive experience. I have not done a Goenka retreat although I have talked to friends who have. Shinzen retreats are not nearly as strict as the Goenka retreats. Some of his techniques, like focus in, help to build introspective awareness. You can also do your own thing if you wish, like TMI practice. However, I recommend learning his techniques while you are there, so you will have additional tools in your toolbox.

His retreats also have challenges, like the opportunity to do some lengthy sits in the afternoons, and an all night meditation. However, everything is optional.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Becky,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. We will take these ideas into consideration as the task force develops strategies. We will also probably have opportunities for students such as yourself to volunteer to help with implementing some of these tasks.

Blake

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