December 15, 2016 at 5:06 am #1710
I’ve tried to find a view on this comparison but haven’t found one so I thought I asked here.
I would like to know if there is any difference between present moment awareness and peripheral awareness and if so what is the difference.
Now when I’m trying to overcome dullness this is something that I think of a lot because I don’t know if I’m in any way neglecting or hindering my peripheral awareness when focusing on being aware of the present moment while keeping attention on the breath.December 15, 2016 at 10:01 pm #1712
Dear B Lejon,
When someone speaks of present moment awareness, I think they are usually talking about some combination of attention and peripheral awareness. Usually the attention moves from one thing to another in the present moment, and peripheral awareness notices sensory objects that might be examined by attention.
If you are aware of other sensory phenomena while keeping attention on the breath, I would say that you have peripheral awareness.
Blake – Dharma Treasure TeacherDecember 16, 2016 at 6:52 am #1713
Hello B Lejon
Now when I’m trying to overcome dullness this is something that I think of a lot because I don’t know if I’m in any way neglecting or hindering my peripheral awareness when focusing on being aware of the present moment while keeping attention on the breath.”
Further to what Blake mentioned above, I would say that you are actually alternating your attention to the present moment, away from the breath sensations, while trying to keep your peripheral awareness. This is fine in the early stages and encouraged as a way to develop your awareness and as such you should use to help against dullness.
Test this for yourself by determining if you keep sustained attention on the breath while also checking in on the “present moment”, what overlap (if any) do you see between these two?
– Dharma Treasure teacher-in-training
December 16, 2016 at 7:33 am #1716
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by Michael Dunn.
Thanks for the replies.
I will continue examining this as this is something I try to keep ‘open’ and be aware of as much as possible at the moment in my training.January 5, 2017 at 10:09 am #1750
So what is happening when my attention seems to be on my mind state?
On page 33, it says (paraphrasing here) you can’t stand back and use attention observe what’s happening in your mind. Only awareness can see the current mind state. If I (using what I think is metacognitive introspective awareness) observe what’s going on in my mind right now, I’m able to stably rest in that state for some time, and my mind state is the focus.
I’m sitting here, I’m conscious that I’m here right now and it seems like my overall mind state is in my attention. I can observe a thought arise and pass, etc.
So what is happening – is it that my attention is on the contents of my peripheral awareness, which is currently my mind state, and that awareness is rapidly projecting “current mind state” content into my attention?
January 5, 2017 at 4:27 pm #1752
- This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by Chris M.
Stated another way:
If I look at a pencil, that’s what my attention is on. If I hear the sound of a passing car, that’s what my attention is currently on. I’m conscious that that’s what I’m focused on right now. I’m sitting here [doing x].
Suddenly, if I ‘take a step back’ and am now conscious of what’s going on in my mind, that’s no longer what my attention is on, that’s coming from my peripheral awareness? I don’t see the point of demarcation between different activities happening in attention versus awareness, when I’m conscious of all these activities in seemingly the same way.January 5, 2017 at 5:00 pm #1753
If you look at a pencil, your attention is on the pencil. If you hear the sound of a passing car, your attention may flicker to the passing car, or even land on it, or it may not move to it at all. You can be aware of the passing car even if your attention never goes to it. This is difficult to see until you start doing it in stage six—you can approach it theoretically, but clearly seeing the distinction between something that is a subtle distraction in attention, and something that is in peripheral awareness, requires a lot of practice. Or at least that’s been my experience. I am meditating in stages four and five right now; the only time I’ve clearly perceived this distinction was in my most recent retreat when I was peaking out in stage seven.January 5, 2017 at 7:23 pm #1754
Thanks Ted, I understand what you’re saying.
However, I think my posts were confusing, that’s not quite what I was attempting to get at. I find it really tough to try to get my point across writing in English on the internet.
What I’m trying to ask is – if I look at a pencil, it’s currently in my attention. But, if I look at my mind state, it’s somehow not in my attention, the TMI book says I’m using my awareness. Even though it feels exactly the same as looking at a pencil.
Both things are in my conscious awareness, my main focus, but one is apparently using attention and the other is using awareness.
I don’t get it. How can both experiences feel the same, but are being experienced in fundamentally different ways. Why can’t I use attention to look at my mind state. It sure feels like I’m doing just that.
I will accept an answer such as – I don’t have the meditation skills to see it, it’ll become clear later. But I’d really appreciate some clarification or a pointing out of something I’m missing or misunderstanding.January 5, 2017 at 8:45 pm #1755
How do you know that you are experiencing your mind state in your awareness and not in your attention?January 6, 2017 at 9:21 am #1758
I don’t know it, it’s only because the book (TMI, on p.33) states that “attention, on the other hand, can’t observe activities of the mind..” that I’m confused. I would otherwise be fairly sure that I’m using attention to observe anything that is my current focus – the thing that is foremost in my conscious awareness.
Thanks Ted,January 6, 2017 at 10:54 am #1759
Ah, I see. Attention can only observe the activities after they have happened. What Culadasa is talking about here is that introspective awareness can watch the activities of the mind as they are happening. I think he talks about this somewhere in that section, but I may be mistaken.
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