Is it true to say

Front Page Forums Meditation Is it true to say

This topic contains 35 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Bernadette 6 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 36 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #2642

    Bernadette
    Member

    Hello

    Is it true to say that I am practicing removing my attention from thinking because thinking is the act of clinging and aversion before its physical expression?

    If this is so then am i practicing creating a space and place in my mind that did not exist before to go to when thoughts seem to be the only reality?

    Also is it true to say that all thinking is aversion or clinging and that only prolonged sustained sensing can do the work of clearing compulsive habits of thinking/ behaving? So is thinking a type of behaviour here?

    Thank you. Bernadette

    #2646

    Ivan Ganza
    Member

    Hi Bernadette,

    Let me try and address what I think is the core of what your asking.

    All thinking is not aversion and clinging. We don’t want to paint a bullseye on thinking and label it as something bad. There is nothing wrong with thinking, it is a natural process.

    Where the trouble starts is the _relationship_ to what is thought. Do we cling to nice happy thoughts and push ugly, uncomfortable thoughts away? Do we want to keep nice memories and discard the ones we don’t like?

    When we practice we do not create something in the mind that did not exist before. However we are leaning new skills and abilities, and perhaps we could say, those did not exist before.

    We are learning skills and abilities that let us observe mental processes, the process of clinging for example. Skills and abilities that bring these processes to light so they can be seen happening. Once they are seen happening, and enough of the mind-system is present to soak in that insight experience, the usual relationship to thinking can change in a profound way.

    As a by product of this, certainly much of the usual thoughts one typically would have will not be generated anymore (or generated much less). That is not to say however one will not think. Thoughts are still generated, but now, for the ones that are still generated, the relationship is different.

    Cheers,
    -Ivan/

    (DT Teaching in Training)

    #2650

    Ivan Ganza
    Member

    Hi Bernadette,

    Please let me know if this was of any help to you?

    Perhaps you can restate your question in other words, so others might pick up and add their input.

    Please let us know.

    Cheers,
    -Ivan/

    #2656

    Bernadette
    Member

    Hi Ivan,

    Your comment is helpful. Where you describe that I am creating a new relationship to thought wrapped itself neatly into my neuronal pathways, if that even happens with thoughts. Nevertheless the comment was meaningful and orienting for me. The other parts of your comments I am still processing now. Some parts shimmer with potential like I am just about to understand them.

    So is it true to say that the relationship to thought is being changed by the repeated perception of thought happening without a grabbing or pushing away response occurring?

    Thank you Bernadette

    #2660

    Ivan Ganza
    Member

    |So is it true to say that the relationship to thought is being changed by the repeated perception of thought happening without a grabbing or pushing away response occurring?

    Yes!!! Wonderful!!

    #2664

    Bernadette
    Member

    Hi Ivan,

    Thank you for the feedback

    Then is it true to say that responding to the perception of thinking with complete equanimity is the wisest way to go? A bit like not making a big deal of the changes in the outside weather but definitely noting them as an event.

    With interest Bernadette

    #2666

    Ivan Ganza
    Member

    Yes, I think you are on the right track.

    This new relationship should eventually come about as a natural result of following the steps outlines in the book.

    There will be a time when it is basically automatic, the default, not something you’ll need to do.

    Cheers,
    -Ivan/

    #2667

    Bernadette
    Member

    Dear Ivan,

    Thank you for that reply. Would you kindly give me a page number in the book or perhaps explicitly state here the steps you refer to?

    Kind regards Bernadette

    #2668

    Tom Kennedy
    Member

    Hi Bernadette and Ivan, I just want to say thank you for sharing this Q&A with us all. Describing your experience of this practice as “creating a new relationship to thought” is really lovely, Bernadette, and insightful.

    #2669

    Ivan Ganza
    Member

    Hi Bernadette,

    In answer to your query; I am referring to the entire model, steps and training presented by the book. Somewhere along the line, this amazing miracle (and many others) will dawn.

    Put another way; following the stages of the book, step-by-step, stage-by-stage, reading and re-reading, but most of all, doing the practice!

    #2670

    Bernadette
    Member

    Hi Ivan,

    That is clear. Thank you. There is no dharma group here in Perth Aus, that I know of that follows the TMI pathway so skilful use of the book is important for me.

    With thanks Bernadette

    #2671

    Tom Kennedy
    Member

    We’re popping up everywhere, Bernadette! I’m not too far away – Brisbane is at least getting closer. I know groups are being set up in Melbourne, so Perth may happen soon too. Feel free to get in touch anytime.
    Best wishes.

    Tom

    #2674

    Bernadette
    Member

    Hi Tom,

    Bernadette 🙂

    #2675

    Julian S
    Member

    Great conversation. Just to show some solidarity with the southern hemisphere sangha, I am writing this from my home here in Christchurch, New Zealand 🙂 I know of at least one TMI practitioner from Perth doing the teacher training with me Bernadette, I will let her know you are nearby!

    Julian (teacher in training)

    #2676

    Bernadette
    Member

    Hi Ivan,

    So I think, and that act of thinking takes up all my mind space and then something? happens and my attention expands to include the fact that i am thinking. This moment of expansion makes me feel uncomfortable alot during these days right now. I have to calm myself to accept the expansion. Included in the expanded field of attention are all my body sensations and that can feel good or not good. I sometimes swallow with fear on reentering awareness.

    If i try to make the dawning of awareness a joyful experience it feels forced and like im setting myself up for a fall the next time i get distracted.

    Does any of this sound familiar to you?
    Bernadette

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 36 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.