[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Nelson,

I think a survey would be a good idea if it were done properly. There are many practices in TMI, and for teachers it would helpful to know which ones seem to be most effective. I have used a Google Form for surveys in the past, and it worked pretty well. I could also discuss this with Culadasa the next time I meet with him to get his feedback and ideas.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Cheese,

Thanks for the follow up. I am very glad to hear that things are going well for you, and I think you are on the right track.

I recommend that you give the brahma viharas longer than a week. It can take awhile to settle into the practice and to see any benefits. I know one teacher who tries a practice for 6 months before determining its effectiveness, or recommending it to students.

Best of luck,
Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by  Blake Barton.

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Dear Wiley,

Your post to Cheese was inappropriate. You implied that Cheese could have a “personality disorder” which is not acceptable, and you also stated that Cheese is lacking “mental stability”. Answering questions and giving advice is encouraged on this forum. However, diagnosing someone’s mental health is not welcome. At least one other Dharma Treasure teacher and I do not agree with your assessment. In the future, please practice right speech when conversing with this group.

Five keys to right speech according to the Buddha

“Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people.

Which five?
“It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will.”
AN 5.198

Sincerely,
Blake – Dharma Treasure Community Administrator and Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Cheese,

I have heard many of Culadasa’s talks and Q&A’s, and I don’t recall hearing him say that emotions stop with awakening. However, maybe he did, and I am not aware. What I have heard him say is that the relationship to emotion changes, as described in the two arrows sutta that Ivan shared. He often says that pain (unpleasant physical and mental sensation) is inevitable, but suffering (second arrow) is optional.

Recently, I heard Culadasa talk about the development of compassion. He stated that with awakening, and the realization that we are not separate selves, compassion is increased. However, he felt that compassion does not always keep pace with wisdom, and that is is worthwhile to cultivate compassion while developing wisdom.

Given your concerns, I would recommend regularly practicing the Divine Abodes (loving-kindness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity). The appendix of TMI contains loving-kindness practice, and this practice is available as a guided meditation here. http://feeds.feedburner.com/Culadasa.

I have also heard Culadasa say that with higher levels of awakening, desire and aversion cease to drive behavior, but compassion takes their place.

Please feel free to keep us informed about your practice.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Dear Ali,

Working with joy could be helpful for you when working with anxiety. As you have seen, a joyful mind is not typically anxious. I recommend spending time in the first four steps cultivating the pleasant, including joy. It may not continue when you go to the breath at the nostrils, and that is OK. You don’t really have control over that. I would be careful with “trying” to keep the joy going.

However, as you noted, if you keep a more spacious awareness it is more likely that you will be aware of pleasant sensations. Especially if you have that intention. Being aware of pleasant sensations can make the mind more joyful.

Developing attentional stability is important, but it is perhaps more important to develop the awareness capabilities of your mind. When working with difficult emotions our attention often gets hijacked by them.

I recommend regularly incorporating loving-kindness meditation into your routine. It is detailed in Appendix C of TMI. Culadasa has guided meditations on loving-kindness and developing joy available here. http://feeds.feedburner.com/Culadasa

He also has a series of talks and meditations from a retreat entitled Joy and Meditation which are available in the same location.

Please feel free to keep us informed about your practice.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Ali,

This is in reply to your follow-up post about derealization. It sounds like it could be a result of your meditation practice and/or taking LSD. Psychedelics and meditation can accelerate each other, which can cause difficulties for some people. One effect of meditation is to alter the way that we view reality. When our view of reality changes it can be scary, especially if it happens before we have developed powerful mindfulness and samatha.

You downplay your meditation time and level, but some people are just much more sensitive to meditation than others.

Please see Appendix F in TMI for a discussion of the Dark Night. You can decide for yourself if this resonates with your experience. One key to working with the Dark Night is to continue practicing and developing your mindfulness even though it may be difficult. However, as I mentioned in my previous post you want to find a level of practice that is not overwhelming.

I will respond to your other post separately.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Manjushree,

It sounds like even though you are at stage 2, that sensations of piti are starting to arise. They typically arise in stage 7 or 8, but for some people they arise much earlier. I recommend reading the Sixth Interlude in The Mind Illuminated, to get more information about what is happening.

As you have seen, these sensations can arise outside of meditation as well. My recommendation is to turn your mindfulness towards these sensations. If they get so strong that you cannot easily ignore them, then switch and make these sensations your object of meditation. Try to observe them with as much objectivity as possible. For example, notice if the sensations change over time, are they more intense in certain areas, how large is the area where you feel these sensations.

It is also helpful to try to have equanimity around these sensations. They won’t hurt you, but they can be intense or unpleasant. Try to notice if you have any mental resistance to these sensations. Notice any thoughts or fear around the sensations.

If you suddenly started practicing for 1 hour at a time, this may have been too much for you. Some people are more sensitive to meditation than others. I recommend lowering your meditation time until things get more comfortable and stable, and then slowly increasing it. You might also try some walking meditation discussed in the appendix for part of your meditation time. It can help to balance the energy flows.

Please keep us informed about how things are going.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Malte,

As you have probably noticed when you try to “fix” an individual sensation, your attention is isolating it. While your attention isolates it, you miss the other sensations that are occurring.

In order to get in touch with this, periodically, after an inhale, stop and reflect on how many distinct or different sensations that you noticed during the inhale. After awhile you will not need to stop and reflect, you will just know that you were aware of several different sensations.

If you are knowing 40-100 different sensations during the inhale and exhale you are exceeding the instructions, and you have plenty of clarity.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Dear Ali,

Have you had any treatment for derealization? Did the derealization start after you started meditating? Some of the insights you have along the spiritual path could be similar to derealization. I recommend proceeding with caution, because meditation can make certain conditions worse. If in doubt, please contact a mental health professional.

You said you rekindled your meditation practice with a lot of zeal. You might consider backing off on your practice slightly until you can find a level that is more stable for you. A gradual increase in meditation time is generally a smoother process.

Does the fear after meditation have a cause of which you are aware? If not, this could be piti. Some aspects of piti can feel pretty similar to anxiety. You might want to read about piti in The Mind Illuminated. In the early days of my practice, the piti tended to arise after my meditation. Particularly, if I did something that required concentration.

Since you mention that joy is arising in your meditation you could be experiencing piti earlier than expected.

I recommend having the intention to develop more peripheral awareness during you meditation. Notice if there is any fear, anxiety, or piti arising during your meditation. When the fear or anxiety comes up after meditation, the following technique could be helpful to allow you to work with it in a mindful manner.

Emotions are made up of self talk or mental images combined with sensations in the body. For example, most of us have felt “butterflies” in the stomach when nervous or a constriction in the body when angry.

The feeling in the body and the thoughts associated with those emotions tend to multiply, and this can totally overwhelm us. When you are examining emotions it helps to get curious, and to try to be objective (using a mental label can help keep us more objective). For example, when you feel an emotion in your body, is the sensation constant or does it change. Is it a tingling, burning or constricted sensation. When the thoughts arise, label them as “thinking”. If you start to get overwhelmed you can actually say the label out loud.

If the emotion gets too overwhelming to stay with mindfully, you can move your attention to the breath for awhile, and consciously relax on each exhale.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Black Ghost,

At the risk of overloading you with information, Culadasa has a series of guided meditations and talks available here.

http://feeds.feedburner.com/Culadasa

I listened to the first one, and I think it could help you develop more mindfulness.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

I would like to add a couple of things to the good advice that you have gotten from Michael and Ivan. It seems like you could benefit from developing more mindfulness. I recommend reading the Third Interlude – How Mindfulness works in The Mind Illuminated. This will give you information about the benefits of mindfulness.

I recommend the following exercise. Have the intention to have a more spacious awareness while noticing the breath sensations, so that you are aware of other things in your environment, and what your mind is doing. As soon as you notice that your attention moves away from from the sensations of the breath, use a simple label to notice where it goes. For example, if it moves to a sound, label “hearing”. If it moves to a thought, label “thinking”. Most importantly, notice when it moves to an emotion and label “aversion” or “dissatisfaction” depending on the emotion. After you notice it and label it, gently bring your attention back to the breath.

If your labeling reveals a persistent emotion, that keeps drawing your attention, then make the emotion your meditation object. Emotions are made up of self talk or mental images combined with sensations in the body. For example, most of us have felt “butterflies” in the stomach when nervous or a constriction in the body when angry. The thoughts tend to perpetuate the body sensations and vice versa.

Emotions like aversion are a little more subtle to feel, but there is a physical component to those as well. The feeling in the body and the thoughts associated with those emotions tend to multiply, and this can totally overwhelm us. When you are examining emotions it helps to get curious, and to try to be objective (using a mental label can help keep us more objective). For example, when you feel an emotion in your body, is the sensation constant or does it change. Is it a tingling, burning or constricted sensation. When the thoughts arise, label them as “thinking”. If you start to get overwhelmed you can actually say the label out loud.

When the emotion dissipates, gently return to the breath.

As to the difficulty feeling the breath sensations, you may have expectations about what the breath sensations should feel like instead of what they actually do feel like. For example, at first you may only feel a couple of minor tingling or vibratory sensation at the nostrils. If so, this is it. If you don’t feel anything, then just wait patiently for something to arise.

I recommend getting curious and exploring what breathing feels like as if you are a child breathing for the first time. Try just sitting and noticing if you are breathing in or out. If you are breathing in, what sensations in the body tell you that you are doing this? Do the same thing with the out breath. I think sometimes we expect the sensations of breathing to be stronger or more distinct than they actually are. It can also help to let the breath sensations come to you instead of you finding them.

I know it can be difficult when you are depressed, but I recommend trying to find some sort of activity to get involved with. This could be volunteer work or finding a meditation group to sit with. Exercise can also be helpful.

Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Aaron,

When deciding where to go with your practice I recommend remembering the goals of this meditation system which are stabilized attention and mindfulness. These skills will then allow you to study your mind and ultimately awaken to the true nature of reality.

I think you probably are experiencing piti, but pursuing piti alone is a dead end. Piti can come up earlier than expected especially if you have done things like the Advanced Yoga Practices. The book is a model, but it can vary from person to person.

The full body and pleasure Jhana’s can be tools to help you develop the above skills, but I recommend honestly examining the stages and making sure that you have have mastered each skill before doing practices in the next stage.

If you have a question about specific stage mastery please feel free to ask.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Sam,

I think you may have misread the book. On page 275 is says “this diligence [effort] actually keeps the natural joy of a unified mind from arising”. The joy typically arises after you successfully let go of effort.

I recommend making sure you have fully mastered Stage 6 including “sustained exclusive focus of attention, and a high level of metacognitive introspective awareness”.

Page 275 has some markers that indicate that you might be ready to drop effort.

Blake Barton – Dharma Treasure Teacher.

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi DCurtis,

Sorry for the late reply. I have been out of town, and unable to respond. It seems like you have developed additional understanding about what is going on in your mind.

You state the following “there is a member of the mental committee that resists sitting meditation”. I would suggest that you examine this with mindfulness. This would be aversion, and it is an emotion that can be examined. When it arises, turn your attention towards it. Emotions almost always have body sensations associated with them. When you feel resistance or aversion, notice where you feel this in the body. Examine it objectively and with curiosity. What do the sensations feel like? How large are they? Do they change over time or remain constant. A mental label like aversion might keep you on track while you observe. Also notice if there are any thoughts associated with this emotion. The thoughts and body sensations typically accelerate each other. You can label the thoughts as thinking.

You also state “maybe it’s just that it sees meditation as hard work”. If this is the case, then you might need to change your attitude towards meditation. I recommend you re-read the end of the “An Overview of the ten stages”, starting with “Cultivating the Right Attitude and Setting Clear Intentions”.

I also recommend re-reading Stage 1 and doing the “Six Point Preparation for Practice”. Particularly focus on the expectations step when doing the preparation, and there is also a section about “The Right Attitude” in that chapter.

When you make statements like “I’d really like to move into stage three and keep making progress, but it’s not happening.” and “how do I get on to stage three?”. It makes me think you should evaluate your attitude and expectations.

Hope this helps,
Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi James,

Thanks for the information. I overlooked your message when it was originally posted. I haven’t researched the issue yet, but I assume you are saying this because this is an http: site instead of https. Is this correct?

You also stated that “other people in a coffee shop on the Wifi network can easily see your user name and password” To put this into perspective wouldn’t the person need to be sitting in the coffee shop with packet sniffing software to capture the data, and then sort through it to find the password? The password would just not appear to other people in the coffee shop unless they had specific software and malicious intent.

Nonetheless, I agree with your advice not to use the same user name and password as you use for anything sensitive.

I will research converting this site to https, to eliminate this potential problem.

Thanks,
Blake – Dharma Treasure Community Admin

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