Thoughts on mixing Noting Techniques with TMI?

[Jevan PMember]

Hi all,

After doing a 17 day retreat, and reaching stage 7, along with the first 5 pleasure jhanas, I feel motivated to do a longer retreat and really go for stream entry and beyond. Of course, after returning home my attention span is no longer at that level, and I’ll have to do some rebooting, but..details..details..

So I just booked a 3 month trip to Thailand. Now here are my questions, I plan to go to Chiang Mai, and there is a famous monastery in Chiang Mai called Wat Ram Poeng, that is highly reviewed, and offers a 26 day meditation course (or I can stay for any period of time, minimum of 10 days). But the technique taught there is a style of noting practice. And of course, in typical Mahasi-type fashion can get pretty hardcore, the last 3 days are strong determination sits, no sleeping.

I’m debating whether or not to take this course, and how it could effect my TMI practice. I have other options, and could stay at different monasteries in other cities where I would be free to do my own practice (TMI), which I do plan to do as well.

So does anyone have experience with doing TMI, taking a break, doing Noting, and then going back to TMI? Would this month of Noting help or hinder my progress in TMI?

[Meshe MooetteMember]

Incorporate whatever practise works, towards awakening. Noting is fantastic, as is dedicated practise to a technique that is functioning well for you. TMI provides a beautiful, nuanced roadmap- you chart your way up the mountain. I did a period of intense noting that paid off in spades through the door of impermanence.

____________________

“Rather than argue for any specific technique, this book will help you make sense of all these different approaches without having to reject any of them.” – xix

“The practice offered in this book doesn’t have to be a replacement for other techniques, but instead can complement any other type of meditation you already do. You can use the 10 stages approach in combination with, or as a precursor to, any of the many Mahayana or Theravadin practices.” – xxi

[Jevan PMember]

Meshe,

Did you do this noting before/during/ or after you work with TMI? I ask because, I’d like to avoid the dark night, which is my biggest concern with doing noting practice. Did you go go the the progress of insight while doing noting? Did you have a dark night? How was it to return to TMI afterwards? Easier?

[Meshe MooetteMember]

I had been developing stable attention and powerful mindfulness, studying dharma intensively with many teachers and maintaining bodhisattva vows for 7 years before I even heard about noting practise.

The progress of insight is a map that I was only rather recently (a year and half ago) introduced to, and although I have studied it, received teachings on it and recognized experiences when reading through the map- I tend to conceptualize the process in a less detailed way. So, I’d be hard-pressed to discuss it without the map in front of me on paper =). The way I understand it, the dukkha nana’s are part of the process, and that having a more unified, equanimous mind doesn’t prevent passing through that- but it makes the process smoother and easier.

I am quite familiar with dark night experiences- where insights into impermanence and no-self meet and begin shatter strongly grasped beliefs in the opposite. They are quite different than regular mental affliction. That’s actually how I came to study with Culadasa, after reading the section on “dark night” in TMI- it re-inspired practise in shamatha-vipassana and the 8 fold path. Recognizing that these dark night experiences were in fact direct knowledge of suffering (the process of grasping to separate Self-hood and things as independent entities) is actually a joyful process, from one perspective. Hey! THAT’s what suffering’s root is! Great!

We can only work with where we are, and what unfolds for us. A life event could happen at any time that pulls the rug out, and forces insight into impermanence, for example. There’s some great advice on pg. 259 about how to minimize the psychological trauma associated with maturing Insight.

Wishing you all the best Jevan!

Meshe

_________________FROM TMI Stage 9 Chapter______________

“keep in mind, attachment to Insight can itself be an impediment. It’s far better to surrender all hopes and expectations. Just practice from a place of trust, for the sake of whatever your meditation may bring. These Insights will come in their own time. Awakening is an accident, but meditating on the mind is a practice that will make you accident-prone.” – pg 334

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