Meditating on the mind – further questions

[5adja5bMember]

Hi there,

In the Stage 9 practice Meditating on the Mind, I am looking for the mind’s resting state. Can anyone give me any further hints of what I am looking for?

Occasionally I have had a second or two or ‘pure white’, then objects appear in consciousness again, and I wonder if that was a glance.

However, I do get periods of ‘reality distortions’ that come on like weather squalls across otherwise blue skies, where reality bends and shifts and twists around, sometimes with quick flashes of imagery (hypnogogic imagery maybe). Often these culminate in fruitions, but not always, however there does seem to be a strong link to cessation blinks. These come on whether I am in jhana or any other practice (may be coincidence but third and fourth jhana seem popular times for these periods to come on). But i wonder if the ‘pure white’ I described above is linked to this rather than the mind’s natural state. I havent found a way to counter these periods and at the moment am trying to be equanimous towards them, as they come and then go and then come and go, and the assumption that they need to be fought (as dullness) I am not sure about. Sometimes putting more power into awareness makes these periods less powerful, (which is not necessarily a good thing) as they seem to happen in attention and suck a lot of conscious power if I allow them to.

However if anyone had thoughts on these periods of reality distortions I would be interested to read them.

Finally, returning to Meditating on the Mind, when expanding attention to fill awareness, I find it easier to reach out to awareness and then set the intention for attention to come and ‘meet me’ there in awareness. Do people find this a valid approach?

Thanks!

• This topic was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  5adja5b.
• This topic was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  5adja5b.

[Ivan GanzaMember]

The calm before the storm. All is quiet, there is the possibility that anything could happen. Still and silent.

Then BOOM, CRACK, lighting streaks the sky. Rain is falling…

The two states, resting and non-resting, hard to describe with words. Have to be experienced. Taste them. You will know it.

—
(DT Teacher in Training)

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  Ivan Ganza.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  Ivan Ganza.

[5adja5bMember]

Thanks Ivan.

Do you have any opinion on the periods of reality distortion I am experiencing? I am not sure if they are something to which I need to apply an antidote – or whether they are something that I should let happen without challenge.

I have tried adjusting my posture to be more energetic (no lower back support) and that didn’t really have much affect. Someone helpfully suggested it might be because I am concentrating too hard at the expense of awareness, and while this does have the effect sometimes of adding some ‘lightness’ to my focus and more context to these reality-distortions, they still are present.

I have also tried opening my eyes in the middle of one of these periods to check whether I feel sleepy or drowsy and I don’t really. I have also tried rapidly counting to 10, then counting backwards, then counting in multiples of 2 etc, again to test the alertness of my mind, and I didn’t have any problems here (though this can mean the reality-distortion no longer is prominent, and it becomes softer and more in the background, or even fades away). So I feel pretty sharp. The question of dullness arises in my mind primarily because sometimes these periods involve a fraction-of-a-second where a dream-like flash of appears in consciousness, for instance a random person, or fantasy. This is rarely prolonged and is there-gone, but it could suggest the ‘half asleep-half awake’ state of hypnagogia.

As I said, these reality distortions also frequently result in what I believe are cessation experiences. Blinks on-off-on, followed by a wave of pleasure and temporary ‘sharpness’ of concentration with no reality-shifting. But this has been going on for about three weeks now, every day! And it’s not uncommon to have, say, 40% of my sit in this state, broken up into 5 minutes reality-shifting, 5 minutes sharpness, 5 mins reality-shifting, etc.

Maybe cessation requires an element of detaching from reality, however I am unsure what to think of the length of this period (three weeks). I have read that experiencing cessation over and over can prevent one from making progress on the next path (on the other hand, I have also been told that it doesn’t make a difference to one’s path progress!).

Recently I have been getting equanimity in my sits and this helps relax around them, just let it happen, but I do wonder whether I should be applying antidotes, if I am habituating my mind to some kind of dullness. On the other hand illumination can be powerful still even in these periods which implies strong focus, and as I say I have tested for dullness as described above. For the most part mindfulness also feels strong even in these reality distortions – I am not ‘lost’ in them, but rather observing sensory input shift and distort (apart from the blinks, and the fractions of dreamy images that can take over consciousness), with awareness and attention still, I believe, including the bits of reality that aren’t currently shifting (eg an ‘external’ noise, or the breath. etc)

Today while meditating on the mind I had a period when reality just became kind of neutral. There was a visual impression (applied afterwards?) of kind of vibrating greyness. It was followed by a gentle bliss wave. It felt different to what I believe are the cessation experiences, and I wonder if this was the mind’s resting state. It felt as if it lasted longer than my usual ‘blinks’, 1 or 2 seconds rather than a fraction of a second. I am just cautious, given the dreamy imagery, of misinterpreting imagination/dreams for direct experience of something else. (as I say this was not typical for dreamy imagery for me, which is shorter and brief ‘stabs’ of some obvious fantasy, but still).

Thanks!

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  5adja5b.

[Ivan GanzaMember]

The reality distortions you describe are typical experiences that may or may not happen. They are a good sign but not much needs to be made of it, except, to remain aware and continue the practice appropriate for you.

Based on what you wrote, I am wondering why you think stage 9 practice is appropriate at this point?

You mentioned Jhana, fruitions and stage 9 meditation on the mind.

In my experience — if one is ready for stage nine, much of the taste of what you described would be somewhat familiar.

Can you let us know some of your practice history? Have you practiced with a teacher? Learning strictly from the book? How long you have practiced? Have you been on retreat?

Thanks,
-Ivan/

(DT Teacher in Training)

[5adja5bMember]

Hi Ivan,

To clarify, when I first noticed cessation, the pattern was similar. It is because the experience in the last 3-4 weeks it has been so dominant that I was asking about the reality shifts. I currently am more relaxed about it all and kind of see it as my mind trying to show ‘me’ something. It also seems to have really slowed in the last two days (coincidentally at the same time I decided to try and remain in cessation for longer periods – it almost seemed to make the experience shy away. Having said that, there were some experiences that have evidence to say they were longer periods, but I am not sure at all).

I place myself at a stage where meditating on the mind is appropriate because I currently experience pervasive equanimity in my sits (outside of jhana), that in the last few days has lasted throughout my day. The equanimity is very similar to 4th jhana. Illumination has been present since last year, and inner sound has been present for a whle too.

This enduring peace may not last, however over the past few months I was experiencing aches, sweats, pains, disruptions, nausea etc that matched grade 3 piti description (with clear physical pliancy for perhaps months prior). This has now seemingly been replaced by the equanimity with the physical pliancy present but not dominant.

I am aware that there should be grade v piti before this point, and it is something I have questioned. but I often initially spend over an hour in jhana in my main sit of the day, and I wondered if the ‘peaking’ of grade v piti was happening in that period.

When I tested this theory over a period of six consecutive sits recently, by staying out of jhana when I first sat down, there was clear rising of pervasive pleasure, both physical and mental, that basically felt the same as 2nd jhana, but with the ability to move focus onto wherever I wanted. The consistency and similarity to 2nd jhana led me to conclude it was probably grade v piti.

As I say, my current consistent experience, once I emerge from jhana, is of pervasive equanimity. In the last few days this has stuck throughout my day, together with a different experience that I believe is related to insights (well, maybe the equinimity is insight-related rather than samatha-related too. Or a mix of both) and hard to describe briefly. In addition to peacefulness, there is spaciousness. When there is a breeze, it can be like the breeze is blowing through me. ‘Walls coming down’ has been on my mind? (But unsure the extent to whcih they have dissolved). Regardless, it currently is really nice.

I access jhana daily either through illumination, metta, pleasurable feeling, whole body breath, breath at the nose (not sure if that is the breath nimtta, I initially though it had to be but it doesn’t match Shaila Catherine’s description – it was more like a conceptual ‘mental image’ of the breath rather than an actual visual appearance – however it seemed to be jhana). I go up to 5th or 6th, maybe the 7th and 8th, but I often run out of time by then (although today I resolved to explore formless realms specifically and was able to access 5th jhana from access and go from there. Unsure if I accessed 7th and 8th as I am not entirely sure what they taste like. 6th is still a bit sketchy in that regard too. At times it felt as if pure cessation was accessable today through jhana (is that 9th jhana?) but again I need to explore further. Deciding where to prioritise my time can sometimes be an issue. I got a sense of how some might use jhanas as a path to enlightenment. ). I have not managed to fully withdraw from the senses in jhana yet.

From time to time/occasionally, I do get distractions, however I am currently often so relaxed about it all that it isn’t really a problem. I kind of figure that as the mind gets more powerful, finer distractions are noticed, rather than expecting complete perfection. It almost feels as if I am content to let them from time to time appear. And kind of learn from them. All the feelings and experiences mentioned above say to me I am practicing at the appropriate level.

I have not been on retreat. I have practiced with TMI since last July. Prior to that I meditated from, 5-30 minutes a day based on other books, since the beginning of 2016. Currently I sit for 3 hrs 15m to 4hrs 15m a day, across two daily sits. Often it is 2hrs15 – 2hrs45 in the morning, and 1hr30 in the evening. Re: teachers, I have talked with Nick Grabovac twice over the last couple of months, and he has been very helpful! I have also found the online forums helpful and supportive.

Anyway based partly on this(as there is more detail I could give), partly based on the fact it feels doable, I decided meditating on the mind is appropriate. I do feel pretty confident about that appropriateness. But I could be wrong. So I’d be interested to hear particularly if you have a different view. I find it a beautiful practice at the moment.

Hope this helps clarify, and thanks for your help so far 🙂

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