[JoshMember]

Bobby,

I can’t tell you how helpful your feedback has been, and how grateful I am to have found resources like TMI and this community. I really think I could have ran around in the dark for 25 years if not for some of this specific feedback.

—-

So, I figured it out.

I was making a few mistakes that were really confusing me. First, I was worried my concentration wasn’t good enough (which turned out to be true) but I ended up slipping into more of a dry vipassana sort of practice to try to remedy this, which lead to a lot of confusion.

I also made the mistake of trying to “see” awareness but not really see how attention was moving. It felt like I was yanking my attention back to the breath rather than gently watching it wander slightly, then coaxing it back.

This led me to misunderstand exclusive attention. I think sitting solidly in stages 4 and 5 with glimpses of stage 6.

I had also mistaken the calming, pleasant effect of Samatha in Stage 4 or 5 (and the relative pacification of the discriminating mind) for the unification of early stage 8 and grade I piti.

At first I was a little bummed being “set back” a few Stages, but today I had an awesome meditation that actually reflected the TMI map appropriately.

-Somewhere in Stage 4-5 I experienced a few actual strong/weird body sensations. They weren’t extreme, but they’re the strangest thing I’ve yet experienced in meditation.

-I also experienced some blinking/vibration/light in my visual field which I’ve never experienced before.

Anyway, I’m really excited and I definitely feel like I’m on the right track now. A lot of confusion has been lifted… so thanks again.

—————

One last question.

1. What causes/effects the rate of mind settling in Samatha? It seems to take me 30+ minutes to really settle in. I know that life outside of meditation is a big factor, and I’m constantly working on that, my stress levels are very low. Is there anything in particular I can work on to speed this transition up?

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! 🙂

[JoshMember]

Update:

I tried the 4 step transition this morning. It’s helpful — especially now that I’m specifically trying to tease out what’s in attention and what’s in awareness.

(It’s actually interesting, the breath-counting method I came up with on my own actually has served a similar purpose but with less clarity around where attention was actually going and what I was aware of.)

Anyway, it was pretty hard. I guess I should have expected that because it normally takes me 20+ minutes to be fully aware of each part of each breath… meaning that until that point my mind is still jumping to other things.

Some tentative thoughts:

1. This is really good because I have something really useful to work on for the first 20-30 minutes. I’ll do the transition and keep identifying what’s in attention vs awareness.

2. I still think I’ve been reaching exclusive attention later on in the meditation, but I also seem to be able to bring about joy and effortlessness without exclusive attention. Maybe it’s because that was the main focus on my meditations for the first few years.

3. I’ll give it a week or so to see how much clarity things brings to the practices later in my meditation when my mind is really settled, and “where I’m at”.

One more question:

What’s a “normal” timeline for the mind settling period? It’s one thing that the book itself doesn’t really address. Right now it takes me 30-45 minutes to reach what appears to be early Stage 8. Is this how it works for most people? And what speeds up the transition? Is it mostly increased concentration power, or just acclimation over time?

Thanks so much!

[JoshMember]

@Peter – Haha, glad to know I’m not the only one 🙂

@B_Arnold – Thanks for the super comprehensive response. I’ll try to answer your questions as well as I can.

1. Regarding Stage 3 following/connecting + the body scan

I find that when I first sit down (first 5-10 minutes) trying to very clearly observe subtle sensations feels very difficult and tiring, and feels like I’m trying too hard + losing awareness. I do much better with calmly counting my breath, which prevents mind wandering, so I’m starting out by gently dealing with forgetting. I try to just let the mind do it’s thing and stay focused on the breath.

The method that’s been most helpful for me is to first make sure I’m not mind wandering at all, then make sure I’m “there” for every breath (never wake up to having missed a count or two), then make sure I’m there for every part of the breath. Consistently being with each in-out breath might take 10 or 15 minutes, and being with it totally from start to finish every time might take 20 or more. I don’t really start with close following and connecting until that 15-20 minute mark; like I said, before that point that close investigation seems to tire me out and make it harder to maintain introspective awareness.

Once I reach that point, close following becomes rather easy. I can observe subtle characteristics of the breath and it feels far less conceptual. I can also easily do the Stage 5 body scan at this point (would have felt tiring like close following) in the beginning.

I did the body scan a bunch in the Goenka retreat (after 3 days of breathing focus/attention stabilization). I’ve also tried it a few times in my daily sits when I reach about this Stage of stabilization, but not often. I was able to scan up and down my body and feel a lot of subtle sensations, but I didn’t have any qi/prana/inter winds experiences. Admittedly I haven’t worked with it much since the retreat though — I seemed to have spent less time on Stage 5 because I feel very alert/engaged once I have stable attention and effortlessness sets in.

2. Attention and Awareness, and Exclusive attention

I’m making a point to notice these differences more in daily life. It’s clear at some points and not at others.

I can tell when I lose peripheral awareness because I feel like my attention “closes in” and I can be startled easily. I can also be very engaged with the breath but still be noticing whether I’m trying too hard or my intent is getting weak, or if I’m becoming slightly dull.

However at other times it is still pretty unclear. If my discriminating mind stops and I feel like I can just watch the free flow of experience, is that happening in attention or awareness? I have no idea.

I’m almost positive I reach exclusive attention in my practice, but it’s just unclear to me where the formal cut off is and how deep I should be trying to go with pure concentration before doing some of the vipassana practices.

=======

I’ll take your advice on the 4 step transition process. Thanks, I think further making the distinction between the two faculties will help. I’ll also make a point to distinguish between the two in everyday life.

Thanks again for all the help!!

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