Question/s Regarding Early Piti Phenomena

[Richard KeysMember]

Hi Folks,

I have been practicing with Culadasa’s TMI system for the past year (I have previously practiced with various approaches ranging from Zen to Burmese Vipassana etc). Generally speaking I would see myself as being at Stage Five within TMI’s schema. Recently though I have been increasingly experiencing phenomena that given the outline in TMI seems to me to be early manifestation/s of piti phenomenon; specifically “illumination,””energy sensations” and “distorted perceptions of the body.”

Primarily this phenomena has expressed itself as novel pleasurable sensory-perceptions via inner light/illumination type phenomena (which fits the description of nimitta as described in “The Luminous Jhanas” section of TMI) and pleasurable somatic energetic sensations. Though on one occasion I experienced a pronounced distorted bodily/spatial perception that was somewhat dysphoric (uncomfortable, disorientating etc). In this instance after a period of inner light/illumination and energetic sensations I began to experience the point of my “consciousness” moving left through my body whilst rotating slowly, this continued for another 15 minutes or so before the bell sounded to end my meditation session. After the session in question I felt mildly anxious and disorientated in part due to “shock” or experiencing this type of radical perceptual distortion whilst meditating, as this type of experience has never happened to me in meditation before.

This leads me to two central questions:

1) The illumination/nimitta phenomena which occurs during most of my meditation sessions (to varying degrees – it currently only stabilises occasionally and periodically) is fairly immersive as attention seems to be drawn to as it develops and past a certain point the breath and the visual phenomena merge/collapse into each other as mentioned in TMI text.

Apart from as Culadasa mentions being careful not allowing subtle dullness to remain present as this process unfolds, are there any other issues I need to be aware of/negotiate as this phenomena unfolds? Especially given that I am still attempting to *fully* resolve some of the obstacles from stages (4-5) below to which these processes typically emerge?

2) In the case of the dysphoric bodily/spatial distortions (or for that matter other dysphoric sensations etc) what would you suggest is the best way to negotiate these experiences. For example is it best to keep meditating until they cease and more or less “normal” perception resumes etc? And/or what other techniques could one use to “ground” oneself?

Many thanks!

note: I have recently discussed the above with a friend of mine who is undergoing training in the Dharma Treasure/TMI system, but I thought I would also post my queries here to see if I could garner more feedback from the experienced with this system and these phenomena.

• This topic was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by  Richard Keys.
• This topic was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by  Richard Keys.

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Richard,

My first recommendation for the illumination phenomena would be to just let it be in the background (peripheral awareness) and redirect your attention to the sensations of the breath. Since you said that it only stabilizes occasionally, it is probably not suitable as a meditation object yet. If it gets so persistent that you cannot ignore it, you could try switching over and making the illumination your meditation object, and see what happens.

One skill we are developing is controlling the scope of attention. Generally you want to use your intention to determine this. If breath is your object, you want to redirect to the breath when your scope of attention expands to include the illumination, however the illumination will still be present in peripheral awareness, and your attention will likely alternate to it periodically as a distraction.

However, if the merging is not under your intentional control, then you could use the merged breath and illumination as your object.

The distorted bodily/spatial perceptions are pretty common as your attention stabilizes and your mind unifies. I recommend trying to have equanimity with these sensations, and to generally ignore them. However, they could be an opportunity for insight. It sounds like they may have caused you to see the world a little differently, and this may have been what caused your anxiety.

Blake – Dharma Treasure Teacher

[Richard KeysMember]

Thanks Blake!

After further investigation… as the nimitta becomes more pronounced I am able to shift to it as the object (though as below often this shift occurs through a merging of the breath and the nimitta or the sheer intensity of the nimitta see note [1] below) and become absorbed in the illumination and the bliss/joy sensations that accompany it. Generally though I will still have some degree of subtle distraction/s present in physical awareness, and there can be potential for my peripheral awareness to collapse somewhat and these subtle distractions to become gross distractions which lead to me popping back out of the absorption in the nimitta, at which point it will subside or go back to a unstabilised form. The periods of absorption tend to last from a few minutes to 10/15 mins or so for me currently. I assume this is the 1st “luminous Jhana”?

Given that I am going into absorption in the nimitta somewhat unintentionally as a product of it merging with the breath or the sheer intensity of it, should I be endeavouring to use my intention to avoid going into absorption in some instances (note – the nimitta is arising in all of my session currently and tends to stabilise — and lead to absorption — at least once or twice per session), or in other words to develop greater “control” over it etc?
(As stated I am still generally at level 5 I think.)

Absorption in the nimitta does seem to lead to a positive feedback effect in terms of my degree of attentional focus overall whereby my attention is greatly heightened, as during absorption I will experience a fairly minimal level of subtle distraction, and the very occasional gross distraction, whereas during the “dry” periods of my sits, I tend to experience a some level of subtle distraction during much of the sit with occasional gross distractions etc. The experience of joy (and tranquility) etc that accompanies the absorption also tends to spill over into day to day life some what, which seems to be a positive effect.

[1] The nimitta effect tends to go through phases with different multi-sensory/somatic effects…
Initially it appears as diffuse colour field, often with multiple centres. It then stabilises into a point, from which it starts to emanate more intensely, as waves of light oscillate out from a point. From there it tends to flood my visual field (note: I meditate with eyes partially open, gaze fixed on the floor in front of me) until it takes up the majority of my visual field. This wave/oscillation effect tends to be associated with the most intense bliss feelings, which also unfold in waves synchronised with the waves of light. From there it typically stabilises but becomes more subtle softer. It either plateaus at this point (until I pop out of it) or occasionally it will go back into a period of emanating waves/oscillation and reach another plateau of brightness and bliss. The colour spectrum also seems to change from more of a colourful blue/green at the start to a green-white as it progresses.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by  Richard Keys.

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the follow-up. The fact that you are still experiencing subtle and sometimes gross distractions would make me say that it is not quite the 1st luminous Jhana, because it is characterized by exclusive, single-pointed attention. It is generally a Stage 8 practice. I guess there is the possibility that you are coming out of the jhana for brief periods of time. It depends how often and long you have subtle distractions.

I think you do want to work on scope of attention at least part of the time, so that when you are focused on the breath and your attention starts to shift or merge with the nimitta, that you bring it back to the breath.

I am not sure if you mention this explicitly, but what happens if you come back to the breath after being “absorbed” in the nimitta? Does it help overcome subtle distractions at least for a time?

I recommend appreciating any joy that arises during and after your meditations, which can really improve motivation.

Blake – DT Teacher

[Richard KeysMember]

Blake,

Yes, I am defiantly not experiencing single pointed attention. Though some type of lesser “absorption” seems to be occurring.

Generally yes distractions are reduced after I come out of it. But I am defiantly not fully overcoming subtle distractions. Generally when it is present when I am focusing on it or not, distractions are reduced. I have read elsewhere that nimitta is sometimes translated as “a sign” of concentration.

Maybe because I haven’t overcome subtle distractions yet (and even totally gross distractions in some instances) and I still experience subtle dullness on occasions etc I am unable to really enter into full absorption in it? And accordingly it is undeveloped or immature?

It does seem to me to be entangled with other piti type phenomenon – the somatic sensations etc.

I guess I should not concern myself with it so much and focus on the practice goals for my current stage.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by  Richard Keys.

[Richard KeysMember]

This is interesting… I was just having a look at Alan Wallace’s Attention Revolution as I read that it is also a book based on Kamalasila’s elephant-training system. I am not sure if you have access to the book but I have quoted some relevant passage below with pages references.

Again he translates nimitta as sign… but in this instance it used more generally and is not specifically to do with the illumination phenomenon.

He cites three kids of signs/nimitta in the primary literature:

– the preliminary sign: parikamma-nimitta… which in this case is the breath as the preliminary object
– the acquired sign: uggaha-nimitta… the illumination phenomena which is acquired at a certain point of attentional development
– the counterpart sign: patibhaga-nimitta which is a sign of achieving Shamatha.

See pg 157

This passage seems pertinent…

“In the phases of mindfulness of breathing thus far, you have been attending in various ways to the tactile sensations of the respiration. However, to
continue all the way along the path of shamatha, eventually you must shift your attention from the tactile sensations of breathing to an “acquired sign”
(Pali: uggaha-nimitta), a symbol of the air element that appears before the mind’s eye as you progress in shamatha practice. To different people,
acquired signs associated with the breath practice may appear like a star, a cluster of gems or pearls, a wreath of flowers, a puff of smoke, a cobweb, a
cloud, a lotus flower, a wheel, or the moon or sun. The various appearances of the acquired sign are related to the mental dispositions of individual
meditators. If you wish to continue on the path of mindfulness of breathing— which here explicitly turns into “mindfulness with breathing”—as soon
as such a sign arises, shift your attention to this sign. This will be your object of attention as you proceed along the rest of the nine stages leading
to shamatha.” – 64

He mentions it as early as stage 4 and seems to be stating that it should be shifted to as the primary object of attention at the point that it emerges.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by  Richard Keys.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by  Richard Keys.

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Richard,

I am assuming that you have read the descriptions of the Luminous Jhanas in stage 8 and in the appendix.

I have read Alan’s book, and Culadasa and I both attended a weekend retreat with him a number of years ago. Alan describes samatha as an extremely rare attainment even in long retreat. Culadasa did not feel that this resonated with his own experience and those of his students.

The Mind Illuminated recommends staying with the breath all the way through stage 10, unless you are explicitly working on another practice like the Jhanas. Perhaps Alan’s recommendation to shift to the nimitta earlier in the stages could contribute to the rarity of samatha, but who knows.

I recommend experimenting in various ways with the nimitta to see where it leads. Maybe it will be a way for you to get to Stage 10. It sounds like you are maintaining enough awareness to notice subtle distractions, so that is good.

Please keep us informed.

Blake

[Richard KeysMember]

Thanks for your feedback Blake.

I have been experimenting with staying with the breath @ the nose VS shifting focus to it etc. It generally tends to either merge with the breath if I maintain fairly strong concentration (without gross distractions etc) or dissipate if gross distractions come up from what I have observed.

Generally yes – I am maintaining peripheral awareness whilst focused on it BUT occasionally I think peripheral awareness will collapse if I get too immersed in it.

I have been experimenting with Wallace’s “settling the mind in its natural state” (a stage 5 technique in his system) where you focus attention on the field of awareness at large without allowing the mind to become entangled with thoughts or perceptions that arise etc. It seems to be that in effect this technique endeavours to dilate attention and merge it with awareness. The technique also seems useful for developing greater introspective awareness from what I have observed. This is technique is interesting relative to the nimitta in that it seems to allow the nimitta and the breath to express themselves without the sense of “conflict” (maybe a strong word, but I couldn’t find a more appropriate one) that arises from having attention focused explicitly on one or the other as both are with the broader space/field and express themselves without interference.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by  Richard Keys.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by  Richard Keys.

[Blake BartonKeymaster]

Hi Richard,

I have done the “settling the mind in its natural state” practice, and I enjoyed working with it. One of the purposes of meditation is to study and understand the nature of mind, and it certainly sounds like you are doing this. I think you are on the right track. Enjoy your explorations.

Blake

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